Why Do CONservatives Obsess Over Small-Scale Criminality?

CONservatives have a peculiar obsession with small-scale criminality. I find this behavior odd because it is extremely irrational. Let me explain with an example-

Say.. a black guy holds up a store for.. say 500-900$. CONservatives of all stripes will loudly demand that he be thrown in jail and make up all sorts of bullshit about IQ, race and how ‘those’ people are less than animals etc.

Now imagine a bunch of rich white guys who manage a pension fund (e.g CALPERS) screw up and lose billions of dollars. What happens? or should I say.. what does NOT happen. You never hear CONservative cocksuckers demand that those people be shot, thrown in jail, lynched etc. At best, they mumble something about the ‘loss of ethics and responsibility’.

Who is more dangerous to your well being- a broke guy who steals a few hundred dollars because he has to survive OR some guy who has millions of dollars and still screws people out of their retirement money?

Many CONservative morons talk about ‘black criminality’. But seriously.. what do you expect from people who have been treated poorly their entire lives? White criminality is however paradoxical and pathological.

The paradox of ‘white criminality’ is that it is socially acceptable, respectable and done by people who are already rich. Moreover, each act of such criminality offers little additional improvement in their lifestyles. For example- A 500k extra bonus offers very little lifestyle improvement to a person who already makes 2 million/year.

I have noted in some of my older posts (like this one) that CONservatives worship bigger and better CONmen. While there are many possible explanations for this inconsistent behavior, I favor one unpleasant explanation- which will be explained in some detail in an upcoming post.

Comments?

  1. sth_txs
    July 12, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    The statistics are not favorable to blacks and other minorities (the racism and ‘treated’ poorly has worn thin years ago), so that is really a myth.

    Are you seriously saying that blacks are not treated worse than whites of equivalent backgrounds?

    However, I have no problem with a ‘bunch of rich white guys’ who looted pensions to be subject to any of your suggestions for punishment. Ditto for white guys like Clinton, Bush and other associates of these administrations that are just as criminal and did nothing to stop it.

  2. Mr. Stricter
    July 12, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    CONservatives fear social disruption more than anything and as such, a violent street crime is worse in their minds than say stealing billions.

    And yes this is irrational and their policies contribute to it. This is of no matter to them even if they could learn otherwise. In their world view the “others” MUST obey their moral system and contribute to their social capital even if the Elite don’t.

    As to sth-txs point., Blacks do get it worse in general in the justice system than anyone else. Some of it is brought on by behavior (some street crimes really are pretty heinous) and some of it by racism. Its not easy to sort out.

  3. Commander Shepard
    July 12, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    “While there are many possible explanations for this inconsistent behavior, I favor one unpleasant explanation- which will be explained in some detail in an upcoming post.” AD

    I’m eagerly awaiting it.

    My theory is CONservatives see rich white men and want to be like them instead of just being their useful idiots. They believe their white skin gives them a kinship bond with their slave masters and any day they will be chosen to join the ruling class.

  4. PKaplan
    July 12, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    You’re insane.

    People were demanding that Bernie Madoff and the other criminal bankers be thrown off the Brooklyn Bridge.

    This post just sounds like an excuse for you to spew hatred towards white people. If you hate white people so much, why don’t you move back to India where you belong? Then you won’t have to deal with CONservatives.

  5. Clit Commander
    July 12, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    Hey PKaplan it looks like you found an exception.. that unfortunately does not disprove anything (i.e. the rule).

    What kinds of people caused this recession again? Point proven.

  6. July 12, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    Steal $1, that’s a felony. Steal $1 million, that’s statistics. ~Joe Stalin

  7. July 12, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    Such of sentiments are not unfamiliar in American History:

    There come a whole car load of groceries
    With a letter that did say:
    You say that I’m an outlaw
    You say that I’m a thief
    Here’s a Christmas dinner
    For the families on relief.

    Now as through this world I ramble
    I see lots of funny men
    Some will rob you with a Six gun
    And some with a fountain pen.
    But as through your life you travel
    As through your life you roam
    You won’t never see an outlaw
    Drive a family from their home.

    “Pretty Boy Floyd” from “Dustbowl Ballads” 1939

  8. July 12, 2011 at 8:04 pm

    Interesting how some will talk about how bad illegal immigrants are for the economy but they will never talk about how bad the bankers bailout was….

    Interesting how some will talk about welfare mothers but they never complain about the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan….

    George Lakeof talks about this in one of his books….

  9. AnonymousDragon
    July 13, 2011 at 3:13 am

    Actually Blacks are oftentimes treated better in the USA than Whites as they get preferences for jobs, colleges etc. And Blacks like Obama were likely never discriminated against or hassled by cops; it’s pretty obvious at first glance that the guy is basically an oreo, and just listen to the way he talks — there is no doubt. Indians and other Asians make on average more than Whites in the USA; the whole discrimination line touted by some does not add up.

    The reason Blacks are poor is mostly because the fathers never stick around so the ghetto mothers have all of these children who are subsidized by the transfers of wealth from Whites to Blacks. People who get welfare in the USA are not even made to be temporarily infertile (!). In America the average Black IQ is at 85 & Blacks have more sensitive hormone receptors (also because of evolution) and therefore react more to the hormone testosterone; this can be a volatile combination (Asians are at the other end and Whites are in the middle). It’s really hard for someone with an IQ <100 to get through college to get a decent job, partially in the high-paying STEM majors, and this applies to unintelligent people of any race, but, as aforementioned, Blacks tend to be at a sizable disadvantage.

    Sometimes I wonder, where's the gratitude? Whites have saved countless millions of Black, Brown, & Yellow lives with drug inventions such as penicillin, and have provided medical technology which allows for a lengthened lifespans. Blacks should be particularly thankful when one thinks of the contrast between the shithole of Africa and all the goodies they get from Whites, both as a result of historical contributes and the present-day gobbymant, science, technology, etc.

    P.S. For better or worse people are afraid of violent crime. Some finance guy in a suit is not going to kick my ass to try to get my money but if I go around a lot of young Black men the odds of this happening increase exponentially.

  10. Columnist
    July 13, 2011 at 3:23 am

    Looking at white collar crime is considered Anti-Semitic.

  11. AnonymousDragon
    July 13, 2011 at 3:25 am

    Let me just say something to the equalists who may be gnashing their teeth right now. :-) Evolution did not stop at the neck. For some the most radical notion is that people differ on account of their genetics not only at the individual level but also at the group level. The only benefits to racial diversity stem from eating ethnic food (and it is questionable if this even applies since it can be imitated) or having sex with ethnic whores. Otherwise it’s all strife, victim/grievance politics, etc.

    • A Equals A
      July 13, 2011 at 10:15 am

      Your obviously another idiot determinist or bio-con.

      Interestingly, you start your initial post by rationalizing your (indefensible) position by saying that “blacks get treated better than whites”. Any person with an educated background would know that that’s certainly not true in the US. Blacks are still treated and perceived negatively in many situations. And does it not occur to you that discrimination can be targeted to just negatively perceived groups? Blacks are that group historically in the US.

      Tell me, what jobs do blacks get “preference” for by the way?

      Why is their unemployment rate higher (double) than the white rate then?

      In your worldview, blacks must be treated better than whites in order to be justified (since if they are treated badly,it makes perfect sense otherwise), yet they are still “ungrateful” and “uppity” even after whites bestow them with altruistic favor and largesse. You actually buy that BS?

      Wealth transfer in the US is not from white to black, its really happening from poor and middle class to rich as wealth becomes more an more concentrated at the top with bankers, financiers, money managers, lawyers, etc.

      Get your head out of your ass.

  12. A Equals A
    July 13, 2011 at 10:20 am

    AnonymousDragon :
    P.S. For better or worse people are afraid of violent crime. Some finance guy in a suit is not going to kick my ass to try to get my money but if I go around a lot of young Black men the odds of this happening increase exponentially.

    Its just common sense. I wouldn’t go into a dark alley, a night, filled with shady looking thugs standing around of any race. Your stupidity illustrates the authors main point in the article.

  13. AnonymousDragon
    July 13, 2011 at 11:47 am

    Despite what you may think cops are pretty smart. They are going to hassle and oreo like obama or some other professional looking black person. An unknown Black man presenting himself like obama or Bill Cosby will have no problems with cops & will experience little if any discrimination. And they can pick this up right away when looking or interacting with someone. Black people disproportionately look like thugs even though that clashed with your PC worldview and as such they are targeted more. Young Black men often emulate characters like Lil’ Wayne, etc., with Whites and Asians doing so to a far lesser extend.

    The gobbymant, colleges and corporations are required to meet a quote for Blacks and Hispanics and this results in Black people being admitted to such institutions with lower grades, test scores, & often levels of experience. This is well documented and only an ignorant person would deny this.

    Why is the unemployment rate so low amongst Asians in the USA (it’s lower then Whites)? By your logic any discrepancy is because of discrimination & that does not add up. Since you likely deny that groups of people differ significantly on average by means of their genetics in your mind the problems of Blacks therefore must be the result of discrimination instead of laziness or lack of intellectual capacity.

    Are there any examples of successful and safe nations with a Black majority? Your equalist assumptions are bunk; but,. dear reader, I too was once an equalist before I educated myself. I oftentimes get the feeling that equalists simply do not have any idea of what they are talking about stemming from either lack of the mental capability to understand, experience, or they are too lazy to read up on sociobiology, including peer-reviewed journals, etc.

    A Equals A:

    Try again.

    So what’s you point other than attacking me ad hominem style & in doing so you show your ignorance and moral bankruptcy. You display you ignorance. The fact is that young Black youths (especially those looking ghetto) and men are disproportionately committing violent crime. Does any rational person actually deny this? Because of this it is rational to take greater precautions around said subjects.

    • A Equals A
      July 13, 2011 at 3:47 pm

      AnonymousDragon :
      Black people disproportionately look like thugs even though that clashed with your PC worldview and as such they are targeted more. Young Black men often emulate characters like Lil’ Wayne, etc., with Whites and Asians doing so to a far lesser extend.

      “Extent” you mean? lol. Look regardless of what race they are or how many are “disproportionately” a certain race (whites were disproportionately slave owners, people of color to a lesser extent) I avoid them all. You can’t seem to grasp the concept of judging people as “individuals”. I don’t buy your “blacks are thugs” BS because I have a brain and can distinguish people properly. Try it sometime.

      The gobbymant, colleges and corporations are required to meet a quote for Blacks and Hispanics and this results in Black people being admitted to such institutions with lower grades, test scores, & often levels of experience. This is well documented and only an ignorant person would deny this

      Colleges, public or private, in California where I live, are not required to meet any racial quotas whatsoever. Its outlawed. I am aware of no law in the US that forces private companies to meet “quotas” for hiring blacks. Do seriously you have any idea what you are talking about are you just re-gurgitating conservative BS?

      AnonymousDragon :
      Black people disproportionately look like thugs even though that clashed with your PC worldview and as such they are targeted more. Young Black men often emulate characters like Lil’ Wayne, etc., with Whites and Asians doing so to a far lesser extend.

      Are there any examples of successful and safe nations with a Black majority? Your equalist assumptions are bunk; but,. dear reader, I too was once an equalist before I educated myself. I oftentimes get the feeling that equalists simply do not have any idea of what they are talking about stemming from either lack of the mental capability to understand, experience, or they are too lazy to read up on sociobiology, including peer-reviewed journals, etc

      And your apparently too lazy to post those supposed “peer reviewed” journals. The burden of proof is on your dumb ass. And yes there are moderately successful majority black countries. Botswana and Barbados for example. Its really a simple Google search.

      I won’t bother to respond to the rest of your post. It was enough trouble reading it as is being illiterate as you are. I call things like I see it. If you post dumb ass things, guess what: your a dumb ass.

      • AnonymousDragon
        July 13, 2011 at 5:17 pm

        I type fast so there’s the occasional typo. Big fucking deal; I’m not writing an acacdemic paper here.

        Everything I said was true. Your claim that White people were disproportionately slave owners could not be more wrong. Blacks, who were sold into slavery by other Blacks, enslaved Blacks in Africa & slavery has existed in Africa up until this present day, long after it was abolished in the West by Whites. So, historically and into this present day there have actually been more Black slave owners & a greater proportion of Black slave owners to Blacks than White slave owners to Whites.

        Botswana is a shithole with an average per capita GDP of under $8,000.

        Read your history. You may even learn something.

  14. With the thoughts you’d be thinkin
    July 13, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/e/16711680/wshhqC16Wittvf7gMfBR

    This is completely unrelated, but interesting.

  15. A Equals A
    July 13, 2011 at 6:05 pm

    AnonymousDragon :
    I type fast so there’s the occasional typo. Big fucking deal; I’m not writing an acacdemic paper here.

    No actually it’s indicative of your overall reasoning. Which is basically sloppy.

    Your claim that White people were disproportionately slave owners could not be more wrong. Blacks, who were sold into slavery by other Blacks, enslaved Blacks in Africa

    Actually not quite. Slavery in the America’s was much more brutal (most slaves died in the atlantic passage and were thrown overboard, slaves were whipped, raped, separated from their families etc). There is virtually no comparison to the “slavery” in Africa. A slave in many African societies could eventually become free, his children were not slaves, slaves could rise in social rank etc.

    Could that happen in the 1800’s American South? I don’t think so.

    Botswana is a shithole with an average per capita GDP of under $8,000.

    Botswana is roughly equal in wealth to Argentina (a majority white country). So I guess Argentina equally qualifies as a shithole? It’s still many times richer than most countries in Africa and Asia. So it can’t be that much of a bad place.

    You also ignored Barbados, a country that ranks 42nd in human development and is the 51st richest in the world

    I think that means you need to shut the fuck up.

  16. Ted
    July 14, 2011 at 5:54 am

    The reason is due to violence. The guy robbing a gas station will often use a gun, and that scares the middle class. A banker or lawyer who rips off his clients does not use violence, and the victim believes it was their own fault for not being smart enough to read all the fine print. They foolishly believe that they can become just a little smarter, and that will make them rich.

    I’m reminded of a George Carlin bit, “The rich keep all of the money, but pay none of the taxes. The middle class do all the work, and pay the taxes. And the poor? The poor are there just to scare the shit out of the middle class – keep them going to those jobs!:”

  17. marlon
    July 14, 2011 at 9:07 am

    A=A,

    Slavery in Africa also involved death, cannibalism and harsh treatment. Barbados is the exception to the rule of how Black countries are run.

    And depsite how “racist” and evil America is, it provided and continues to provide the greatest opportunities to blacks and other non-whites than anywhere else in the world.

    I know it is hip to blame whites for everything but non-whites are not seeking to leave America and go back home; they want to stay there.

    Again, the “whites are the devil” argument is not borne out by facts but…ther has to be someone to blame for all that is wrong in the world.

    As for the article by AD, I agree; the worst criminals by far are the whites and jews at the top who swindle everyone beneath them.

  18. Mr. Stricter
    July 14, 2011 at 9:38 am

    A=A its arguable that Argentina is a majority White country. That being said, one or two decent black countries among many seems to make Steve Sailer’s HBD arguments for him.

    I’ve known too many excellent people of every race for me to assume “all of them” of any group are stupid.

    I am solidly in the smart non sociopaths are cool category and am fine so long as the standards are very high and objectively measured with people from anywhere immigrating to the US legally . I strongly oppose illegal immigration though If I can somehow get a pile of healthy 150 +IQ Somalis with a 130IQ wives who don’t hate my country I’ll take them in preference to say the 95IQ Ukrainians. And yes IQ is a short hand here, it would need to be a comprehensive test.

    Alas this is unlikely as the US is addicted to cheap labor and as far as know , no society can be 100% smart people. As it always comes to suffering stupid people I choose my own (White/Born here ), over any others.

  19. A Equals A
    July 14, 2011 at 11:50 am

    The problem with the theory that blacks have a low IQ (on average) and therefore cannot create a decent country or standard of living is the fact that everybody forgets:

    Europe was also basically third world and had one of the worlds worst standards of living during the middle ages.

    People forget the impact culture, religiosity and superstitions have upon economies and social advancement.

    Europe was not much unlike sub-saharan Africa for hundreds of years prior to the enlightenment era, that is:

    1) High inequality
    2) High rates of poverty
    3) High rates of disease
    4) Constant wars
    5) Corrupt leaders
    6) Low rates of education
    7) Highly religious

    See the correlation?

    Occams razor says that the simplest answer, is usually the correct one. Rather than extrapolating that there is something genetically wrong with blacks, the simpler answer is what causes the majority of their problems is their bad ideas/culture.

    Given the fact that there is no evolutionary advantage for low intelligence, it’s far more likely intelligence is not their problem. Dumb people died off.

    • Mr. Stricter
      July 14, 2011 at 4:06 pm

      Europe had these things after a fashion but they don’t compare except broadly.

      I’ve even read studies suggest that Europe during the middle ages was better off than 21st century Sub-Saharan Africa today in material standards of living.

      Even so for 12th century technology , Europe didn’t do all that bad. Yes there was inequality but all in all it was a fairly stable system and it worked well enough.

      One thing both societies have in common is being above carrying capacity, Europe improved greatly after the Black Death and if SSA gets its population down, hopefully by humane means, they’ll have a chance at a better life.

      However its not the West’s responsibility to help them deal with it, either in our countries or theirs.

      • A Equals A
        July 14, 2011 at 5:44 pm

        I’ve even read studies suggest that Europe during the middle ages was better off than 21st century Sub-Saharan Africa today in material standards of living.

        That’s probably not true. The life expectancy of the middle ages was 35 (In Britain it was 30!). In Africa its around 50. Africans today are still better off than those in medieval times.

        And it wasn’t “stable” by any stretch of the imagination. Wars, revolts and upheavals were constant.

        Its a HUGELY outrageous statement to say middle ages Europe was better off than SS Africa today. You should really read up on how bad it was. It was quite awful.

        Also take note that some SS African countries were relatively advanced and prosperous (most were muslim) during the middle ages and also prior to that period.

        So again, this nonsense “blacks are low IQ savages” theory just needs a rest. Its not an adequate or consistent explanation. Too many things contradict it.

        One thing both societies have in common is being above carrying capacity, Europe improved greatly after the Black Death and if SSA gets its population down, hopefully by humane means, they’ll have a chance at a better life.

        Africa itself has huge “carrying capacity”, (being a landmass mass equivalent to the surface area of the moon) and huge amounts of arable land. The problem is the lack of productivity and not being able to feed enough people. they solve that problem, Africa can carry probably an extra billion or so.

        P.S. On your Argentina comment. Argentina is indeed majority white. Many black countries in the Caribbean are in fact, wealthier, not just Barbados. So its not just a one-off phenomenon.

  20. Mr. Stricter
    July 14, 2011 at 9:16 pm

    A=A I’ll note that 20th Botswana and Zimbabwe are about as well off life expectancy wise as English Peasants in the Middle Ages

    I have read far too much on that era (product of a youth misspent playing D&D) and on the whole it wasn’t all that awful. It wasn’t good till somewhat after the black death and hygiene, , well yuck . And of course there were food shortages and technology was lacking but it was a creative and vibrant era at times. I do acknowledge though compared the Caliphate, it was a backwater.

    I’ll also mention that Europeans can be downright unpleasant, as an example The Early Modern 30 Years War’s effect on Germany made the Rwanda Genocides look like a walk in the park.

    You are correct in Argentina being White, thanks for the correction but its life expectancy at birth exceeds that of essentially all of Africa save a few Northern nations (c.f. Wikipedia)

    It may not be racial or it may be but whatever the case Africa is a deeply screwed up place compared even to screwed up South America.

    I’ll also note the nations in Africa that seem to have the longest life expectancies, the Northern ones are Morroco, Libya, Algeria and Egypt all of which are mostly Semitic, essentially White not Black African.

    However I have no real way to judge intelligence by group thats fully trustworthy and I am open to the notion that its far more nurture than nature. I’d honestly like to think so as writing off a chunk of humanity as useless is not a pleasant place for me.

    This doesn’t mean that I favor immigration from Africa or anywhere save for the smartest or that many American Urban Blacks are largely a detriment to society as much as the Elite are. Those are separate policy issues.

  21. kaiser
    July 15, 2011 at 6:39 am

    In a 500 years, when the dominant group in the world is not white (whether they be the Indians, Chinese, Arabs, etc.), history will be rewritten (like the Europeans did) and the same things will be said about whites. That they have low iq, are predisposed to crime, can’t develop a civilization, etc, etc.

  22. AnonymousDragon
    July 15, 2011 at 6:49 am

    Check this out:

    http://lagriffedulion.f2s.com/sft.htm

    Anyone with a low IQ (SAT & ACT test scores correlate strongly with IQ, hence colleges use them to measure success) is going to have a tougher time in life, and that includes completing college, getting a good job, and staying out of prison. If you are White, Black, or Asian & have an IQ of 85 (the Black mean in the USA) you won’t be able to complete a 4-year degree at a real college, and an IQ needs to be over 100 to complete a STEM major. From what I’ve read, in the USA, Whites have a mean IQ of 100, & Asians are at 103. I’ll also note that Asians tend to complete college at higher rates than Whites and are less likely to go to prison.

  23. A Equals A
    July 15, 2011 at 8:33 am

    kaiser :
    In a 500 years, when the dominant group in the world is not white (whether they be the Indians, Chinese, Arabs, etc.), history will be rewritten (like the Europeans did) and the same things will be said about whites. That they have low iq, are predisposed to crime, can’t develop a civilization, etc, etc.

    In 500 years, (assuming humans still exist) the concept of race as we know it would be obsolete and pointless, due to genetic engineering. Technology would enable people would be able to choose whatever genes or physical features they wanted.

    • Mr. Stricter
      July 15, 2011 at 10:03 am

      I quite agree with this.

  24. Mr. Stricter
    July 15, 2011 at 10:20 am

    kaiser :
    In a 500 years, when the dominant group in the world is not white (whether they be the Indians, Chinese, Arabs, etc.), history will be rewritten (like the Europeans did) and the same things will be said about whites. That they have low iq, are predisposed to crime, can’t develop a civilization, etc, etc.

    Lots of good points here. Most of the HBD types these days have no issue with the accomplishments of the groups you mentioned, they may dislike or hate them on political or ethnic grounds but its clear and obvious these people were capable.

    Whites might again rise or might not , that really a matter of political choices but let me ask, is it probable that the Black Africans will make the cut? I mean even Latin and South America is filled with the Pyramids and other works of the ancestors of the current residents. Now again this does not preclude White/South American Native from being a dysgenic mix deegrading both but I have squat evidence for that. I do not think this is the case myself.

    Black Africa seems bereft of much ancient anything.

    Now this may well be a matter of lack of interest on account of well anyone in whats there but I am a bit curious.

    And note, yes Egypt is in Africa. The inhabitants however are mostly ethnically Semites. I think it unlikely the Pyramid builders were ethnically similar to say a Rwandan.

  25. A Equals A
    July 15, 2011 at 11:03 am

    I’ll also note the nations in Africa that seem to have the longest life expectancies, the Northern ones are Morroco, Libya, Algeria and Egypt all of which are mostly Semitic, essentially White not Black African.

    Egypt is not a “white” country, sorry. They are very non-white looking. Try dropping a Swede or German into the middle of Cairo and see if they don’t stick out like a sore thumb. That also goes for countries like Libya.

    Secondly “semite” is a misnomer for the Egyptians. They did not speak a semitic language in ancient times and painted themselves darker than middle eastern peoples to the north of them.

    Black Africa seems bereft of much ancient anything.

    Wrong again.

    Sudan

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Sudan_Naga_Ram_Temple_01.jpg

    Mauritania-Dhar Tichitt West Africa (2000 b.c.)

    http://www.viamigo.com/img/l/p_o_s_t/54/mauritania-ancient-cities.jpg

    Kenya (1300-1500 a.d.)

    http://www.wallpaperstravel.com/wallpapers/gedi-ruins-kenya-1024×768.jpg

    Read “African Civilizations” by archeologist Graham Connah. He purposely excludes Egypt from his book btw.

    Look, the fact is your wrong about blacks. There are and were wealthy black countries. Some black countries are wealthier than white ones. Most of them in the Carribean. A couple in Africa. Such as Gabon and Botswana.

  26. July 16, 2011 at 11:40 am

    A=A,

    Pretty much all the countries you’ve mentioned have no more than a few million people each. Taken together, they represent a small percentage of people in predominantly black nations.
    Furthermore, most of them have some single cash industry that makes most of their money.
    Barbados, Bahamas etc.= Tourism
    Botswana = Diamonds.
    Reasonable predominantly European equivalents might be: Luxembourg, Denmark, Switzerland, Andorra, Lichtenstein, Monaco, San Marino… You get the idea. Small populations with a secure national livelihood can make for highly unrepresentative samples. I mean, look at Brunei or Kuwait!
    Wouldn’t Nigeria or Kenya vs. Argentina be more reasonable?

    Botswana is a somewhat questionable item on your list since it has one of the world’s highest percentages of people with AIDS.

    Yes, Africa has had civilizations for thousands of years, but are they comparable to their counterparts in other parts of the world? Are the examples of ancient cities you gave us equivalents of Babylon, Rome, Athens, Harappa, Chongqing, Kyoto, or Tenochitlan?
    Could Timbuktu or Mombasa, great trade cities, ever have compared to Tyre, Damascus, or Venice?

    Are people just trying to rationalize ignorance here? I think it likely that you would be met with agreement if you put forth the the premise that:
    Chinese, Indians, Persians, Turks, and Arabs all had civilizations that were better than Europe for most of history.
    So why would these same people suddenly begin to dissemble when it comes to Africa? Is darker skin really enough of a justification for your hypothesis? After all there’s plenty of people in India who are just about as dark as Africans. The darker complected Tamils of Southern India built great civilizations in their own right. Actually, from what I’ve seen online, Tamil Brahmins are one of the highest ranking groups on the IQ tests.

    You’ve ably debated the issue, but let’s face it. You’ve been getting most of your mileage out of a few blanket statements made by your opponents. You might as well give some charity here instead of taking every word absolutely literally.
    What is the main idea of the passage?
    a. Black people never built anything EVER in ancient Africa
    b. Black Africans did not build civilizations on the same scale as elsewhere in ancient times.

  27. A Equals A
    July 16, 2011 at 2:57 pm

    Reasonable predominantly European equivalents might be: Luxembourg, Denmark, Switzerland, Andorra, Lichtenstein, Monaco, San Marino… You get the idea. Small populations with a secure national livelihood can make for highly unrepresentative samples. I mean, look at Brunei or Kuwait!
    Wouldn’t Nigeria or Kenya vs. Argentina be more reasonable?

    The single criteria in question was whether or not the country was majority black. Then I was tasked to show countries that are majority black and relatively wealthy. I did. Now your your talking about about “sample sizes”? Hundreds of thousands to single digit millions is not big enough for you?

    If it’s a “racial” thing it should apply everywhere, in EVERY black country, due to racial IQ averages. Whether it is ten thousand or ten million. Logically then, there should be no cases where black countries are successful. Yet there are. Hence your argument (that blacks cannot create a successful country) is false.

    Botswana is a somewhat questionable item on your list since it has one of the world’s highest percentages of people with AIDS.

    Fact remains, it’s a middle-income, growing economy, on par, wealth wise, with Argentina. Even with AIDS it’s richer than most countries in Africa and Asia. That’s almost a compliment to their level of competence.

    Are the examples of ancient cities you gave us equivalents of Babylon, Rome, Athens, Harappa, Chongqing, Kyoto, or Tenochitlan?
    Could Timbuktu or Mombasa, great trade cities, ever have compared to Tyre, Damascus, or Venice?

    Blacks did’nt build on huge scales?

    Sudanese built on a massive scale, rivaling anything anywhere else.

    http://www.ancientsudan.org/images/02_arthistory_temple.jpg

    http://www.ancientsudan.org/images/02_arthistory_barkal_temple.jpg

    http://farhorizons.com/trips/Africa/Sudan/images/Meroepyramids-purchased.jpg

    http://193.105.21.101/image/19093/amon_temple_naga_sudan_2845x1899.jpg

    On the topic of the Kenyan/Tanzanian trade cities, (mombasa, gedi, kilwa etc) they are all in ruin and had populations of less than 20,000 people at their height. But they were decently built towns that were pretty wealthy. Some could afford palaces apparently.

    Heres a Palace in ruins:

    http://lh6.ggpht.com/-gpZEfQn4aDA/R1wo62pCdMI/AAAAAAAAACs/VhSAmDtZPcM/2007_1202Image0022.JPG

    Heres what it originally looked like

    http://www.blackjadeworld.com/images/article2_03.jpeg

    What is the main idea of the passage?
    a. Black people never built anything EVER in ancient Africa
    b. Black Africans did not build civilizations on the same scale as elsewhere in ancient times.

    No, he pretty clearly said that there was was not “much ancient anything”. Don’t move the goalpost. That’s the issue. Now your saying “Ok, so you’ve proven that blacks can build a civilization but can they build one as big as [insert non-black ancient city]“. Its ridiculous.

  28. July 17, 2011 at 12:07 am

    Sarcastic Retort:
    France, Germany, the USA, they all suck compared to Monaco and Luxembourg, man.

    Strongly Implied Point That Must Be Explicitly Explained:
    Master, when you have a very small country, you can cash in on a single success and everyone is rich. This is a very different dynamic from larger countries. Furthermore, larger countries have many times more people to deal with. Governing these nations is a very different undertaking. This is why no one typically compares the success of very small countries with large ones.

    Exasperated Rhetorical Questioning:
    Might a single valuable commodity make a difference in standard of living whatever people’s IQ might be? Brunei vs. the rest of Borneo. Saudi Arabia vs. Yemen? Especially if they can just hire foreigners to take care of bookkeeping and technical issues if need be?

    Is your case for black nations really that compelling if their very best countries can compete only with the worst European countries? Your entire case rests on extending a few blanket statements to extremes but do your arguments in turn have a lot of credibility if your critics’ claims hold true 90+ percent of the time?

    Over a quarter of Botswana’s population is infected with AIDS. Seriously, is this the best you can do? This example undermines your credibility because we’re all thinking: “if this is the best it gets…”

    When did I say anything about blacks being unable to build on a considerable scale? My concern is whether it’s a scale comparable to other civilizations.
    Are the meroe pyramids and temples comparable in magnitude to their counterparts in Egypt let alone to “anywhere”?
    What’s more, Meroe began as an Egyptian colony. It was a client state of Egypt that happened to escape foreign control.

    You concede that even the most famous trade cities were small compared to elsewhere, and yeah, they could afford some palaces. Have you ever seen pictures of Venice? The whole city is crammed with palaces! What about the Levant region? It’s absolutely crammed with ancient cities, palaces, and temples.
    What’s more, Ancient Rome, Tenochtitlan, or Harappa all had upwards of a million inhabitants.

    Annoyed Bewilderment:
    Why on Earth do you suppose I ought to stick to a single criterion of your choosing on any issue here?
    When did I argue that blacks cannot create a successful country? Are you replying to me or someone else?

    Clarification:
    Master, as far as Mr. Stricter’s statement about “not much ancient anything” he goes on to admit in the next sentence that he may be ignorant on the matter and expresses his curiosity.

    So it’s pretty clear what he’s implying is: “I don’t know much about ancient Africa, but if their achievements were on the same scale as elsewhere, why haven’t I heard more about them? Might I be wrong?”
    As far as I can tell, he was open to reason on this issue. But you seem to have quickly lost your critics’ interest once it was clear you were going to stay stuck on one point, one goalpost ad nauseum.

    And…

    ***Systems Failing, Master….

  29. July 17, 2011 at 9:26 am

    Actually, I’ve done some homework for you out of curiosity. Africa has had a world class Empire outside of North Africa.

    Aksum.

    They were a very early Christian empire that dominated Red Sea trade. They even controlled much of the coast of modern day Arabia and Yemen. Their contemporaries perceived them as a world power and their nation may have inspired the tales of Prester John told among Europeans in later centuries When they’re mentioned in the bible, it usually seems to be with a considerable sense of awe.

    I will say, though, that I consider Cushitic types: Somalis, Ethiopians, Eritreans to be nearly as different from the rest of black Africa as are North Africans. You just look at some of them and you can tell they’re as much Indian and Arab as they are black after thousands of years of intercultural exchange. Phenotypically, even, they look pretty much distinct from San or Bantu peoples.

    As far as the Ancient and Modern Egyptian ethnicity, they’re a blend of races. And there’s clearly a Cushitic influence in their blood.
    If one compares pictures of modern Cushitic women to that famous bust of Nefertiti, the resemblance is unmistakable.
    Also, there’s linguistic links between Cushitic languages and Ancient Egyptian.

    If you’re still with us A=A, I wouldn’t get overly effervescent or smug.
    We’re talking 2 world class civilizations in Africa.
    Perhaps 3 in the New World.
    Meanwhile, the Eurasian land mass is littered with the remains of dozens of great civilizations.
    So once again: the issue of scale.

    Also: When most people say ‘black’ they’re referring to the blacks they’re familiar with. Bantu peoples of West African origin. These peoples certainly created powerful kingdoms and tribal confederations. They had high culture and were skilled metal workers(i.e. Yoruba bronzes). But it would be a stretch to classify any of these states as a world class civilization. And I think that’s what most people here are trying to get at.

    • A Equals A
      July 20, 2011 at 7:41 pm

      Master, when you have a very small country, you can cash in on a single success and everyone is rich. This is a very different dynamic from larger countries. Furthermore, larger countries have many times more people to deal with. Governing these nations is a very different undertaking. This is why no one typically compares the success of very small countries with large ones.

      Everyone is rich? That’s not always the case. I can name off a ton of countries that are small with a great cash resource, but poor economies and high inequality.

      Is your case for black nations really that compelling if their very best countries can compete only with the worst European countries? Your entire case rests on extending a few blanket statements to extremes but do your arguments in turn have a lot of credibility if your critics’ claims hold true 90+ percent of the time?

      My point is that its not racial. For example 90% of European countries during the middle ages were poorly performing by almost every measure. During that same time frame, there were quite a few prosperous African countries with decent living standards (Swahili city-states come to mind). If you lived during that time I guess you would similarly conclude that Europeans had a low IQ and couldn’t create a decent country?

      Your using percentages and correlations to prove causation (blacks are inferior or low IQ). But logically, that’s the wrong approach. If a statement is true, (blacks are low IQ on average genetically) then it should be true across the board regardless of country or circumstance. So your really making excuses.

      Why on Earth do you suppose I ought to stick to a single criterion of your choosing on any issue here?

      Because that’s how logical arguments are formed. It’s not changed or given to other arguments by capricious whim or a “common sense” expectation that I’m supposed to understand what your underlying point it.

      When did I say anything about blacks being unable to build on a considerable scale? My concern is whether it’s a scale comparable to other civilizations.
      Are the meroe pyramids and temples comparable in magnitude to their counterparts in Egypt let alone to “anywhere”?

      You concede that even the most famous trade cities were small compared to elsewhere, and yeah, they could afford some palaces. Have you ever seen pictures of Venice? The whole city is crammed with palaces! What about the Levant region? It’s absolutely crammed with ancient cities, palaces, and temples.

      Well Egypt is not a good counter-example of a non-black society. I believe I’ve already stated that the Egyptians were closely related to Africans via culture, language and physical appearance.

      Secondly, the trade cities of the east African coast were small in scale but no less impressive.

      Scale is not really the issue in determining the IQ or capability or a given group. Sweden and Norway are small countries compared in scale to others but relatively rich and have high standards of living. Scale is a just matter of increasing population numbers (i.e. fucking, immigration) and its not an intellectual goal or activity in and of itself.

      I will say, though, that I consider Cushitic types: Somalis, Ethiopians, Eritreans to be nearly as different from the rest of black Africa as are North Africans. You just look at some of them and you can tell they’re as much Indian and Arab as they are black after thousands of years of intercultural exchange. Phenotypically, even, they look pretty much distinct from San or Bantu peoples.

      Don’t get started with that.

      I could just as easily say Italians and Greeks are just as much north African and Arab as they are white and look quite distinct from Swedish and Irish people.

      Fact is, Mediterranean people are distinct from norther Europeans. Does that stop you from calling them white? Probably not.

  30. July 22, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    I was tasked to show countries that are majority black and relatively wealthy.

    Who tasked you and gave you an official mandate to pursue this line of questioning? Where are your papers? Use of passive voice. I’m afraid that you will find this idea of yours quite indefensible when your friends arrive.

    Don’t sockpuppet with multiple aliases

    On the topic of the Kenyan/Tanzanian trade cities, (mombasa, gedi, kilwa etc) they are all in ruin and had populations of less than 20,000 people at their height.

    Hey everybody, here’s a picture of the ruins of Mombasa:


    http://warisboring.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/mombasa-dec-15-2008.JPG

    Mombasa is in ruins? WRONG!!! Get your head out of your ass.

    Botswana is a somewhat questionable item on your list since it has one of the world’s highest
    per

    c

    entages

    of people with AIDS.

    Fact remains, it’s a middle-income, growing economy, on par, wealth wise, with Argentina. Even with AIDS it’s richer than most countries in Africa and Asia. That’s almost a compliment to their level of competence.

    Fact remains the income of Luxembourg is three times that of Barbados. They have 4.5 -5 times the per capita income of Botswana and their populace isn’t ravaged by a lethal disease. it’s almost a compliment to their level of competence.

    Now your saying “Ok, so you’ve proven that blacks can build a civilization..”

    You put this in quotes. When did I say this. Please provide examples with full adherence to citation guidelines.
    When did you prove black people built civilizations? Are you a properly credentialed archaeologist? Have you even been to Africa? it’s ridiculous I tell you! Ridiculous!

    Your using percentages and correlations to prove causation (blacks are inferior or low IQ).

    Where do I state that blacks are inferior or state that they have low IQ? Where do I state that my goal is to prove blacks have low IQs or are inferior?

    Why on Earth do you suppose I ou
    ght to stick t

    o a single criterion of your choosing on any issue here?

    Because that’s how logical arguments are formed. It’s not changed or given to other arguments by capricious whim or a “common sense” expectation that I’m supposed to understand what your underlying point it.

    You believe that logical arguments are formed by your will? It is he! The God of Logic!
    Oh I get it. The opposition also gets to be the self appointed moderator. How…impartial. OK let’s go back to arguing about whether Barbados is black!

    Scale is not really the issue in determining the IQ or capability or a given group. Sweden and Norway are small countries compared in scale to others but relatively rich and have high standards of living. Scale is a just matter of increasing population numbers (i.e. fucking, immigration) and its not an intellectual goal or activity in and of itself.

    Scale is just measurement by proportion. I don’t understand why population is the only criteria we can consider in terms of scale. But maybe i just lack common sense.

  31. Z Equals Z
    July 23, 2011 at 8:23 am

    I was tasked to show countries that are majority black and relatively wealthy.

    Who tasked you and gave you an official mandate to pursue this line of questioning? Where are your papers? Use of passive voice. I’m afraid that you will find this idea of yours quite indefensible when your friends arrive.

    On the topic of the Kenyan/Tanzanian trade cities, (mombasa, gedi, kilwa etc) they are all in ruin and had populations of less than 20,000 people at their height.

    Hey everybody, here’s a picture of the ruins of Mombasa:

    http://warisboring.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/mombasa-dec-15-2008.JPG
    Mombasa is in ruins? WRONG!!! Get your head out of your ass.

    Botswana is a somewhat questionable item on your list since it has one of the world’s highest

    per

    c

    entages

    of people with AIDS.

    Fact remains, it’s a middle-income, growing economy, on par, wealth wise, with Argentina. Even with AIDS it’s richer than most countries in Africa and Asia. That’s almost a compliment to their level of competence.

    Fact remains the income of Luxembourg is three times that of Barbados. They have 4.5 -5 times the per capita income of Botswana and their populace isn’t ravaged by a lethal disease. it’s almost a compliment to their level of competence.

    Now your saying “Ok, so you’ve proven that blacks can build a civilization..”

    You put this in quotes. When did I say this. Please provide examples with full adherence to citation guidelines.
    When did you prove black people built civilizations? Are you a properly credentialed archaeologist? Have you even been to Africa? it’s ridiculous I tell you! Ridiculous!

    Your using percentages and correlations to prove causation (blacks are inferior or low IQ).

    Where do I state that blacks are inferior or state that they have low IQ? Where do I state that my goal is to prove blacks have low IQs or are inferior?

    Why on Earth do you suppose I ou

    ght to stick t

    o a single criterion of your choosing on any issue here?

    Because that’s how logical arguments are formed. It’s not changed or given to other arguments by capricious whim or a “common sense” expectation that I’m supposed to understand what your underlying point it.

    You believe that logical arguments are formed by your will? It is he! The God of Logic!
    Oh I get it. The opposition also gets to be the self appointed moderator. How…impartial. OK let’s go back to arguing about whether Barbados is black!

    Scale is not really the issue in determining the IQ or capability or a given group. Sweden and Norway are small countries compared in scale to others but relatively rich and have high standards of living. Scale is a just matter of increasing population numbers (i.e. fucking, immigration) and its not an intellectual goal or activity in and of itself.

    Scale is just measurement by proportion. I don’t understand why population is the only criteria we can consider in terms of scale.

  1. July 13, 2011 at 10:16 am
  2. July 17, 2011 at 1:12 am

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