Committed LTRs Are Not Worth The Effort

A large percentage of men interested in ‘game’ are trying to use it to ultimately have a committed LTR with a woman. But is it even possible, let alone feasible?

My thoughts:

1] Any technique of obtaining sex quickly, by design, selects for women who will drop their panties quickly. You are selecting for easy lays, as opposed to those with some self-control . If you can easily charm their clothes off, so can another guy.

2] The best sex almost always occurs in the first few months of a relationship. It then starts becoming routine and increasingly boring, eventually becoming little more than masturbating inside a woman.

3] LTR ‘game’ is a waste of time. Why expend all that effort on keeping familiar and aging pussy happy? You could always spend the same amount of time on getting new pussy.

4] All the ‘game’ in the world cannot save you from the effects of job loss, unexpected physical illness, accidents or other stuff beyond your control. What will you do if your ‘investment’ is undone by something beyond your control? Do you have any insurance or recourse?

5] What will you do if the LTR leaves you, for someone else, inspite of your best efforts and ‘investment’? What recourse do you have? What about child support payments, the legal wrangling, custody battles.. and all this because you were trying to be a decent human being?

6] How often do most couples in LTRs fuck? Will you be ever woken with a spontaneous BJ or get one in the shower a few times a week? Sure.. you could ‘rekindle’ the relationship, but at what cost? and why should you have to pay more to get the same thing?

7] Women give the best years of their life to guys who use them as free cum dumpsters. Only after starting to age badly, do they begin their search for ‘mr. right’. Would you pay the new car price for one with 200,000 miles on it?

8] Why should you care about the future of civilization or your legacy? What has civilization done for you? Will your kids even keep in touch with you, let one take care of you?

9] Even if you do everything right, your LTR stays with you and the kids grow up OK… Where is the appreciation for your efforts and sacrifices? You see.. it is your ‘duty’ to take shit so that a condescending hag can pop out a few kids and tell you how lucky you are to be with her.

10] What is your reward for doing the ‘right thing’.. or should I say is there a reward for doing the ‘right thing’?

You could do the ‘right thing’ or live life to its fullest on your terms. Do you know how much good sex can be bought with the amount you spend on your LTR and progeny? Think about the bigger homes, bigger cars, sexless vacations, the yard work, the investments, the saving and scrimping… what will all of that get you? Look around you at all the desperate and unhappy men who are upholding and slaving for a system that treats them as expendable cogs. Want to join their ranks?

You did not choose to be born, but why let others decide how you live or die? Why give them that power when you are getting nothing better in return?

It is your passivity that give them power over your life.. Stand up for yourself, because nobody else will.

You may die in the worst case scenario, but everyone dies in the end.

Do you have anything to lose.. really?


  1. Mike
    June 30, 2010 at 9:45 pm

    Your logic is unassailable. Some small percentage do find meaning in marriage and family. A good friend of mine had 3 kids (with a 4th on the way), and genuinely finds happiness in this. Most of us, however, are miserable in LTRs and marriages.

    The best compromise is that no man should be married before he’s 35. A 35-year-old man with this shit together can find a 25-28 year old woman. Then he can start his family.

    and work his ass for an ungrateful bitch who will ration sex and very likely screw him over.

    Marrying when under 30, for a man, will be the single biggest mistake of his life.

  2. Gorbachev
    June 30, 2010 at 10:28 pm

    I have to agree with you. I was married. I get it.

    These days, there’s not much reason to get married at all.

    And the only possible reward for doing this is grandchildren. But then again, …

  3. Vincent Ignatius
    July 1, 2010 at 3:41 am


    I will eventually knock a girl up, and maybe even get married for political reasons, but I will never stop banging random chicks.

    Want to pay child support for kids you will barely see and interact with.. your choice.

  4. July 1, 2010 at 5:32 am

    I think there are 2 things that a LTR allow: first, stability so a guy can focus on other things, other goals, like curing some disease or something. Fuck society, sure, but some people have been personally affected by the problems in the world, and want to make a difference. Most will fail, but at least they said they tried.

    How does that work out now?

    The second thing is, the wife can take charge of the relationship, in such a way so her man will always try to measure up. She may be aging and drying out, but it doesn’t matter to the guy if he’s constantly trying to win her approval. This keeps him focused on her, and gives him ultimate purpose. And it gives her a purpose: making sure he never measures up. People need a purpose in life. Otherwise they become depressed.

    The real purpose of living is whatever YOU want to make of it.

    Clearly, none of these 2 things are attractive to us. But perhaps the first one will be important in the future because of some personal tragedy. If your priorities shift, it’s good to have a woman who’s got your back.

    So.. would you trust a woman to not stab you in the back.

    • Redpill
      July 2, 2010 at 1:46 pm

      Relationships are not static like some toy you can put in your toybox when you are done playing with it.

  5. Vincent Ignatius
    July 1, 2010 at 6:10 am

    My plan was to knock up a girl in Latin America and actually have a role in the child’s life. I actually enjoy spending time with children so much that I volunteer with kids now. I’m a breeder. Not what you would expect based on my blog, but it’s true.

    You are conflating the fun of interacting with kids for a few hours with raising them as a parent.

    • joesantus
      July 7, 2014 at 1:48 pm

      AD is absolutely correct about “limited interacting vs full-time parenting”. As the father of several now-grown-and-out children, I know from experience that the bulk of parenting is same as the bulk of life is: problem-solving and trouble-shooting. The WORK of parenting is grossly disproportionate to the fun of parenting. For every 10 minutes of fun, there’re many hours of nothing-other-than-time-and-effort.

      You may enjoy playing catch with a son for twenty minutes, but you’ll also have to tend to him when he’s awake an entire night with an earache (and still have to work your job the next day), constantly monitor his behavior in public, endure him breaking the TV remote spilling milk on your cellphone and scratching your favorite DVDs, change his diapers, get him to eat the food he doesn’t like, supervise the schoolwork he doesn’t want to do, ensure he washes his hands, listen to him whine about having to travel someplace, constantly be after him to pick up after himself. And, that’s just the easy part of parenting, the stuff you’ll do before it gets difficult after about age twelve.

      Unless you plan to merely donate sperm, avoid responsibility for the human life you’ve chosen to bring into existence (without consulting the human-to-be), and only reappear in that person’s life at the few moments convenient and pleasurable to you, do not deceive yourself: because, being a parent, a father, is “fun” only to someone without the 24-hour-each-day, 7-days-a-week, 52-weeks-a-year, for-18-years-and-even-after-that responsibility of his own child.

      • EvilOne
        July 7, 2014 at 1:58 pm

        Would you do it over?

      • joesantus
        July 7, 2014 at 4:10 pm

        “Would you do it over?”
        I did take fathering extremely seriously, since I reasoned that, since I was choosing to bring people into existence, I was fully responsible for their welfare and, as much as is possible for a parent to affect the person that a child already essentially is at its birth, their outcome. I have healthy and relatively happy relationships with each of my daughters and sons.
        However, again, NO, I would not do it over. I’d spare not only myself the tedious work of responsible parenting, but also spare those people I’ve placed, through no choice of their own, into the inevitable far-more-pain-than-pleasure existence we call “life”.

      • EvilOne
        July 8, 2014 at 5:20 am

        I wouldn’t probably have kids either. Mid-30s already, and thanks to a mix of personality, bullies, female choice, being ignored or taunted and related factors never kissed a girl outside of a hooker.

        Even if I ‘overcame’ or ‘coped with’ the above – to throw my life away without having fun first is ludicrous.

  6. Vincent Ignatius
    July 1, 2010 at 8:29 am

    I’ve helped raise my younger cousins as well. I’ve had a lot of interaction with children and I’m prepared for the work. You’re projecting your preferences onto others.

    Nowadays, kids are tools in the extortion racket toolbox of women.

    • joesantus
      July 7, 2014 at 1:59 pm

      Even helping to raise OTHERS children is not at all the same as being the one who is ultimately responsible for a child. Delegated and/or partial responsibility is not as arduous nor unending as is having final responsibility. I’m a father and a grandfather, and as involved as I have been as a grandparent, I can witness that being a parent is much different.

      I have several now-all-adult children. The oldest of my daughters helped raise her youngest siblings. As well-experienced at raising kids as she was going before bearing her own children, she’s commented, “Until I had my own children, I really had no idea what it’s like to be a parent.”

  7. jusblaze99
    July 1, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    What about the very rare, but in my opinion attainable and desirable long lasting love in the form of soul mates? I do agree that pussy is fungible 99.99999% of the time, but what about the one woman who is not replaceable that some guys are lucky enough to meet?

    • Joe
      July 1, 2010 at 2:00 pm

      You are just as likely to be struck by lightning than meet your “soulmate.”

      Not to mention- a lightning strike will be quicker.

      • joesantus
        July 7, 2014 at 4:16 pm

        I’d say, far MORE likely to be struck by lightning.

        It’s akin to playing some million-dollar lottery — sure, in theory you can win, but the probability is so slight that for all practical purposes, you’re better off spending that ticket price on an ice cream cone.

  8. Lomaxio
    July 1, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Honest, abrasive, reality

    You distill this down to the jagged bitter rock that is dystopia- life

    Again – you are a sage

  9. Zaza
    July 2, 2010 at 3:14 am

    “6] How often do most couples in LTRs fuck?”

    According do the GSS married couples have sex much more as often as unmarried people. Also the GSS states that married couples report much greater happiness than unmarried people, even after controlling for sex frequency.

    People lie.

    In other words, you are talking out of your ass.

    That said, you have convinced me to consider escorts, for the time being. Although I may still seek out an LTR (but not necessarily marry her, and I also don’t want children, see: I disagree with a lot of you other opinions (politics and IQ for example), but your escort idea is sheer genius. Thanks!

    Nice to know that I reduced the number of women-worshipers by at least one.

    By the way, I am a total nerd, and being white does nothing to help me; I couldn’t get a date if my life depended on it. I can relate to your post about your early twenties experiences a lot, but, I has to laugh (sorry) at your “dry spell” of 4-6 months; you wouldn’t believe my situation! (Morover, I have been ill, unemployed for YEARS!)

    Hey, I had a decent sex life before 20, and so dry spells of even a few months were hard.

    By the way, why do you blog? I your motto is “What’s in it for ME?” then why do you try to help other people (and you aren’t even getting paid for it; where are the damn blog ads?) You see, I am thinking of starting a blog myself, but only if blogging would somehow help ME.

    So that others will avoid my mistakes, and maybe benefit from my ideas. It is an ego thing.

    • Zaza
      July 2, 2010 at 8:36 pm

      “People lie.”

      Yes, but you need to prove it. Otherwise, you can use such a meaningless cliche to disqualify ANY measurement or statistic. “Measurements are unreliable”, duh. Why would THOUSAND of married people SYSTEMATICALLY lie — on ANONYMOUS surveys? There are other more embarassing questions in the GSS where people do not appear to inflate their self-image in their answers.

      “So that others will avoid my mistakes, and maybe benefit from my ideas. It is an ego thing.”

      Yes, but acting like a women’s white knight, or avoiding prostitution in favor of LTRs, because using prostitution feels degrading, are also ego things — which should be avoided according to you. You are not making sense.

      It seems their is still some level of humanity left in you. You need to purge it quickly, LOL.

    • Zaza
      July 2, 2010 at 10:43 pm

      “Nice to know that I reduced the number of women-worshipers by at least one.”

      What’s in it for YOU?

      Women-worshiping is the manifestation of a delusion that should be destroyed.

      • Zaza
        July 4, 2010 at 3:40 am

        As you say, “Why should YOU care?”

    • joesantus
      July 7, 2014 at 4:31 pm

      ” ‘6] How often do most couples in LTRs fuck?’
      “According do the GSS married couples have sex much more as often as unmarried people. Also the GSS states that married couples report much greater happiness than unmarried people, even after controlling for sex frequency.”

      “Much more sex” is relative and doesn’t necessarily indicate “enough” or even “adequate”, never mind “as much as the male partner wants”; as in, “sex once per month is much more than sex once every six months, but far from the adequate of sex every other day”. Compared to an empty cup, a sip can be termed “much more”.

      Ditto for “greater happiness”.

      The more-revealing questions would be along the lines of, “How much sex do you as a husband have compared with how much sex you’d prefer to have?” And, “How happy are you, as a husband, compared with how happy you expected to be or hoped to be as a husband?”

  10. Redpill
    July 2, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    You’re getting some feedback here.

    Lots of women-worshippers on that forum?

    • anon
      July 2, 2010 at 6:36 pm

      Pretty much yeah. I think it is more chalked up to inexperience and lack of initiative that many aspies suffer from more than anything else.

  11. Nestorius
    July 3, 2010 at 12:22 am

    The common thing between feminism and white-knighting is that both are the cult of women. This makes you think whether feminism is the direct offspring of white-knighting.

  12. David
    July 5, 2010 at 4:01 pm

    Maybe I was lucky, and I live in Australia so things might be different. But I solved a lot of these problems quite simply.

    I can undertand why you would not want to marry and deal with a woman who had been used up by “better” men in her twenties.

    I married a pretty virgin. After many years, we still have sex the way I like it. She cooks my meals and washes my clothes and has given me children.

    Marry a virgin. Don’t settle for a lazy slut.

    Men have to say no to used-up sluts.

    • July 7, 2014 at 7:29 am

      Marrying a virgin is equally counterproductive. Married life is a waste of time and reduces men and women to becoming homebodies. In addition to that, I wouldn’t feel comfortable breaking in a virgin (unless she was an anal-virgin). I’d have to teach her too much and wait for her to loosen up her inhibitions and I have no patience for that!

      • travel
        July 8, 2014 at 6:23 am

        Another problem you ignored: dealing with human garbage (99% of women) will make up a bulk of your time invested (read: sunk cost) into that relationship.

        No woman is worth more than a few episodes of good sex.

    • P Ray
      July 7, 2014 at 5:09 pm

      David here is David Collard.
      Unfortunately, things have moved on even in Australia, as Oz Conservative can attest.

    • P Ray
      February 22, 2017 at 11:00 am

      Trying to find out whether a woman is a slut or a virgin is “invasion of privacy”.
      Unless you are the Chad Thundercock she wants, or the Beta Bucks she needs to financially survive (and will be ultimately cheated on because she “LOVED you but was not IN LOVE with you”) … the police may become involved.

      Women are working very hard to criminalise the examination of their sexual history, BUT especially by regular/ugly guys.

      When a woman tells you about all the hoops you need to go through to be with her,
      Want to bet she allowed Chad Thundercock to fire in her hole without warning? But you have to schedule an appointment as part of “putting work into your relationship”.

  13. EvilOne
    July 7, 2014 at 11:13 am

    Ive said it before, Ill say it again… Unka Diaboli lives in some kind of alternate Universe. Unless he’s factored in escorts into his advice.

    My observation is men get into LTRs, by and large, because they dont have enough market value to be players, but enough to get one pussy.

    • travel
      July 8, 2014 at 6:21 am

      Yep, that is the main reason most men settle for LTR. Any man who has had sex with a few escorts knows full well that women are good only for sex. Why would a guy who can fuck lots of girls settle for one (and take all the social rituals and abuse required)?

      The real red pillers are attractive players and guys who go mgtow+p4p.

      • July 8, 2014 at 7:24 am

        The real red pillers are attractive players and guys who go mgtow+p4p.

        Spot on. But I notice how even certain players and these PUA/Gamers enjoy labeling MGTOWs and guys who P4P “Losers”, but these dudes are either slow or they enjoy bashing other men under the assumption that it will get them some Coochie Coupons.

        I prefer escorts and a few hookups (I do tend to enjoy Facebook and FetLife flings here and there), but while I do believe that women’s only power is sex, I won’t say that women are ONLY good for sex. Sometimes, I just like to have a bad-ass chick to converse with, go drinking with, watching sports with and hanging out with. I am guilty of wanting to have a trophy on my arms at public events and sports games at times, although that has never happened to me… yet (if ever). Something about that (or photo-sharing with close friends) causes guys around me to want to do better and tell me “Mr. O., kudos to you for having high standards!”

        But the thing about conversing with many chicks is that… women think in “group think” (which is why feminism succeeds over most men’s movements). They regurgitate shit from their sisterhood or they love to gossip about other women or their problems with their current boyfriends who are either needy and feminine or pseudo-abusive alphas. That’s when it gets boring because you’ve heard all of that shit before.

    • July 8, 2014 at 7:10 am

      True to a degree. Since high school, I’ve met guys who get into relationships with women solely for the purpose of getting the pussy. Why? Because depending on the kind of female they are with, it may take them 90 days or 1 year to get the pussy and in some guys’ viewpoint, if it takes them a year to tap that ass, so be it. Simultaneously, if the guy has to be in a relationship for a year to get the ass, they’ll do that. But me? I don’t play those bitch-ass games and I don’t waste my time!

    • joesantus
      July 8, 2014 at 7:35 am

      “My observation is men get into LTRs, by and large, because they dont have enough market value to be players, but enough to get one pussy.”

      That sounds about right, for those in that 30s-and-younger age group you’re part of, Evil. I have a 28-year-old son, who, with his 5’11”, white, athletic build and good looks, has no apparent intention of an LTR since he has an unending line of good-looking women shoving their cell numbers into his hand.

      I’m 58, so, although your observation also applied to me and my earlier generation of men, we were also significantly influenced by the “sex-is-only-acceptable-within-marriage” gross perversion held by most of my generation’s parents and grandparents. Many of us simply assumed, without much objective consideration of the idea, that “getting married is what you do once you find a girl you love”. Obviously, even a cursory glance at the divorce rate among my generation shows how well our not doing that consideration worked out among us.

      • EvilOne
        July 8, 2014 at 8:09 am

        “I have a 28-year-old son, who, with his 5’11″, white, athletic build and good looks, has no apparent intention of an LTR since he has an unending line of good-looking women shoving their cell numbers into his hand.”

        Must be heaven. As a 5’2 albeit otherwise good looking guy, Ive had some chances with women (a smoking hot 18 year old after me when I was 28 for example for 7 months), but I never thought I could be a player. Or maybe its in my head worse than yours – came here from the Middle East of all places. Or something in between.

        For example, once I blurted out in a university lab that girl X (smoking hot one) and Y ( very short but otherwise good looking ) wanted me to be their BF, and a 5’11 bulky chinese guy who I occasionally did assignments with jumped up and literally ran away to the other edge of the lab in frustration. A week later he greeted me with a look of pain on his face. This same guy a year earlier was complaining about how Tiger Woods could cheat on a white girl, “why, if I had a white girl, Id give her anything she wanted” quote verbatim.

        And then the flip side… there are ‘Alphas’ like your son seems to be. And others Ive observed. Would be nice to put a percentage on these things.

      • joesantus
        July 8, 2014 at 2:17 pm

        BTW, Evil, in case you hadn’t gleaned from other of my few comments on other of AD’s posts…I’m regrettably not as lucky in height as any of my three sons. I’m just at 5’8″ — they pulled in the height genes from their mom’s father and his family.

        So, while, especially as a white US male, I certainly have had it easier than those of you under 5’6″, I nevertheless have always envied the 5’11”-and-taller white (and black) guys like my son who have little or no idea of what it’s like to be “invisible”.

      • EvilOne
        July 8, 2014 at 5:58 pm

        I remember you were 5’8 from some other thread here at Unka Diaboli’s.

      • EvilOne
        July 8, 2014 at 6:12 pm

        Point I was trying to make (well actually I wasnt making a point, just rambling as usual but whatever) is to be able to be a player, you need the holy grail of height and looks. I know some guys who are 6’0 who get nothing, even after trying – bad faces.

        On the other hand Ive seen some guys who are short who can get girls, but probably fit into the middle tier of having to get relationships…there might be a few players there, but I really wouldn’t know and I doubt it.

        Relationships might be great in a civilized culture, but in the western winner takes all culture – its like a slap in the face.

        “You mean that guy gets to sleep with dozens of girls?”

        “Okay, I guess Im not on his level. I guess I’ll take just one…”

        Okay, but thats a relationship – you got to work at it and spend time with her all the time… not only did Mr.Alpha get dozens of girls, he gets to be a free man otherwise…”

        OH MAN! Fuck it, Id rather just play video games.

        Dont forget, you will be respected less in the workplace as well. Not to mention fear other men because they are bigger than you. And if you work hard, all you’ll see is hot young girls in your workplace knowing they will be going home and being fucked by their studly boyfriends

        OH MAAAAN! But I have a high IQ…I ..I…
        fuck it, Im seeing hookers.

        Nah, thats illegal


      • P Ray
        July 10, 2014 at 5:35 am

        Do what I suggested elsewhere that pissed off at least 2 women:
        Master a skill or have a resource that women require, but HATE to pay for.
        Accept payment in pussy.
        If she tries to frame you, the law is on your side:
        Pussy as part of a transaction is barter, NOT prostitution (which is the exchange of money for sex).

      • P Ray
        July 10, 2014 at 5:44 am

        Oh, and don’t be stupid enough to deliver the full service before you’ve sampled the pussy.
        Many women make a promise for sex that they conveniently forget, fail to honour or “tell other women/men that guy is a creep to be ostracised” … WHILE refusing to pay for help rendered.
        Deliver half, then get the pussy payment.
        Because, many women believe “men always deserve what they get”, so return the sentiment in kind …

    • EvilOne
      July 8, 2014 at 11:29 am

      Back to the original point:
      Diaboli complains about being excluded, and in a way, he is right. But at the same time, seeing how much casual sex he got/can get… that puts him a cut above a substantial minority/outright majority of men.

  14. P Ray
    April 19, 2020 at 12:11 pm

    Remember, this is what women mean when they say regular/ugly men have to pursue them:

    – Stay available to be a sucker for a payoff that is never going to happen.

  1. July 4, 2010 at 6:50 am
  2. September 26, 2014 at 1:40 pm

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