The Greatest Ponzi Scheme: 1

I am going to put forth an uncommon idea.

Civilization, as you know it, is a ponzi scheme.

However, this does not imply that civilizations cannot be run otherwise.

It is first necessary to understand why civilizations have always been ponzi schemes. A ponzi scheme is often defined as:

An investment opportunity built upon fraud, where interest or returns paid to initial investors are actually given from the investments made by later investors.

If you stop restricting the definition of ponzi schemes to financial investments, any investment (time, money, effort, compliance) that promises to pay off in the future without an explicitly enforceable penalty for default is a ponzi scheme. Therefore a system that promises you a stable job, decent life etc in the future without explicit guarantee is a ponzi scheme.

Consider the ‘american dream’ or any similar ‘dream’ from the past.. they all encourage people to ‘do the right thing’ so that they can ultimately receive the benefits of their compliance. But can they? The answer is:

Ponzi schemes can deliver upgrades for even its lower ranking members as long as it can find new suckers or steal from others, preferably both.

The progress of post-renaissance western civilization is based on luck and opportunity. It helped to have the right amount of technology (ocean-going ships, guns), at the right time (eastern civilizations were stagnant or dysfunctional) to murder people who could not resist (non-metal civilizations in the Americas, Australia etc) or kill them indirectly (New Diseases, Forced labor). Enslaving non-white populations also helped sustain the ponzi scheme for even poorer whites.

I am not suggesting that one side was innocent, humane or more deserving. I am merely pointing out the number of coincidences required to make the ponzi scheme keep delivering to its original supporters (whites).

So why do civilizations fail?

Conventional and respected “intellectuals” (autofellators and coprophages) have long put forth theories about civilizational collapse based on various concepts and ideas, which sound good but are based on utter BS. The ideas include diverse concepts such as “natural cycles”, “excessive complexity” to the “perils of democracy”.. but in reality are mere projections of themselves. Unfortunately the putrid excretions of such ‘famous intellectuals’, mostly white, continue to influence and contaminate the mental processes of most people.

Larger civilizations and ponzi schemes collapse for the same reason.

The ponzi scheme can continue to operate until payments due exceed the remaining funds from new investments being made.

Once a civilization, or ponzi scheme, runs out of greater fools or more people to rob/steal/murder it can no longer deliver the promised returns to its lower level members. The ‘betrayal’ causes them to lose faith in the system and stop caring about it with the same intensity as before, triggering the next phase of the collapse.

To ensure a continuous level of productivity, those near the top of the pyramid start using more deception, fraud and threats to extract rent from an unwilling populace. The result of such actions, after initial signs of success, is a further acceleration of collapse, through loss of credibility and decrease in productivity caused by an expanding, arbitrary and overzealous legal and enforcement system.

Sounds familiar, doesn’t it? Comments?

More in the upcoming part of this series.

  1. Nestorius
    July 17, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    You need to clarify the terms.

    Civilization = a set containing all people living in cities and governed a governor or governors and laws.

    Better to say systems than civilizations. A system is a set containig the governors (those on the top of the pyramid) and the laws (the Ponzi scheme itself). Even if the system collapses, the civilization can continue.

    I cannot think of an example where a large civilization survived the collapse of its ‘system’. Granted that they are not the same, but they are joined at the hip.

    The people may survive, but as a shadow of what they once were.

    The laws are the scheme. The governors are those who run the scheme.

    These are important distinctions one must hold.

    Anyway, not all systems in old times were Ponzi schemes because most of those systems existed by the right of conquest and power. They did not need to justify themselves in front of their people and the conquered people. Is the system installed by Chengiz Khana a Ponzi scheme? No. He set everything by force and did not promise the conquered peoples anything.

    Any system that lasts over 2 generations requires a substantial degree of implied consent from the governed.

    On the other hand, most democratic systems are Ponzi schemes.
    ALL systems of governance that have ever been implemented in larger systems (over 10 million people) are ponzi schemes.

    They promise you things they cannot ultimatly deliver. All European and American democratic systems are Ponzi schemes starting with the French Revolution, the mother of all the modern political Ponzi schemes.

    • Nestorius
      July 17, 2010 at 3:59 pm

      The system can collapse by the absence of one or both of its two elements: 1) the governors, and 2) the laws. Usually, a civilization collapses if both elements are absent and if the people becomes extinct or become fragmented.

      The Islamic civilization is an example where many systems collapsed (Umayyad, Abbasid, Fatimid, Ayyubid, Mamluk, Ottoman) but the civilization stayed the same or evolved within certain limits.

      Not really, it hasn’t moved ahead since the 7th century + is highly dysfunctional (you should be aware of that). All the work and progress in muslim cultures came from non-muslims.

      Consent can happen de facto because the conquered people has no other choice. Hence we cannot say that a forced system is a Ponzi scheme because in a Ponzi scheme there is consent despite the presence of multiple choices.

      After 2 generations.. not really. People age and die.. If the system lasts past two generations, it is implied consent.

      Hence the secretive taping of butthex without the girl’s “conthent”, because the fiat masters want to have evidence that the girl has been butthexed by her will and was not raped. The girl chose butthex although she could have chosen the natural matrimony, she had both choices.

      People are greedy, short sighted and operate under zero sum assumptions.

  2. Nestorius
    July 17, 2010 at 3:16 pm

    We can also use the terms of Greatbooksformen to describe the situation:
    1) The system: the fiat butthex matrix.
    2) The Ponzi sheme: the butthex.
    3) The governors: the fiat masters.
    4) The pillars of the system: the desouled women.
    5) The people: the men.

    Interesting Idea.

  3. Gorilla
    July 17, 2010 at 5:16 pm

    Exactly! So much of society, civilization, and the economy is a Ponzi scheme. You can’t create new wealth by sliding money back and forth or by tweaking an iPhone 3 to call it an iPhone 4. In a Malthusian sense, wealth comes from what you can grow in or dig out of the ground. Also from hard work in science/research or real engineering/innovation. That’s about all. Everything else in a Ponzi scheme. The (rigged?) stock market. Property values. College education (the prestige of your school is based on how many more people in the future are assumed to want to go there). Government spending. Marketing trendy products.

  4. Vincent Ignatius
    July 17, 2010 at 5:50 pm

    Sounds good.

    I’m trying to think of a civilization that hasn’t been run as a Ponzi scheme.

    All larger (> 10 million people) civilizations in human history have been ponzi schemes.

    There probably are examples but my knowledge of history isn’t sufficient to think of one.

  5. July 17, 2010 at 6:28 pm

    I think you’re over thinking on this one.


    The ponzi scheme as you put it is essentially run from generation to generation.

    The last time we had a worldwide demographic disruption of this magnitude was the 13th century.

    As long as the birth rate is kept up there is a stream of new members for the bottom of the pyramid and the top of the pyramid dies off and everyone moves up the ladder.

    No.. the system is heavily leveraged and requires many more new members to pay off the older members.

    What we have now is a situation where the top of the pyramid (Baby Boomers and older) are going to drag out dying off as long as possible and are willing to consume the entire pyramid in medical spending and retirement benefits to assist in staying alive just a little longer.

    Hmm, I don’t think you realize that old fashioned algorithms don’t work well any longer.

    Meanwhile the birth rate is shot to hell so there are not enough people coming into the bottom of the pyramid.

    So while I don’t see the entire collapse of civilization, it is certainly going to be a very rough ride. The solutions to it are going to be quite harsh.

    No, there is NO solution within the current or any other historical paradigm. The solution will involve taking directions that we have never considered before.

    • July 18, 2010 at 6:25 am

      You’re purposely misquoting me. I made it clear that we need many more people joining the pyramid.

      and where are they coming from?

      • July 20, 2010 at 2:01 pm

        “Meanwhile the birth rate is shot to hell so there are not enough people coming into the bottom of the pyramid.”

        I said they aren’t coming.

        Or at least not enough of them. We don’t even have a population replacement birth rate without ilegal immigration added into the mix.

  6. Wisla
    July 17, 2010 at 7:17 pm

    What measures can young people take? As in millennials. How to get through it, how to prepare for it, etc.

  7. Nestorius
    July 18, 2010 at 5:50 am

    The main point that should be undelined here is that systems that are run through a Ponzi scheme are bound to collapse. Even if all the people does not wake up to the reality of the whole scam, it takes only few men to destroy the system.
    A rotten wood structure can collapse without warning, even if it has held up beyond expectations.

  8. Nestorius
    July 18, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Here is a better definition of civilization:
    C =
    civilization =

    Civilization is a quadruple containing:
    1) people = a set of humans. P = {H1,H2,…,Hn}
    2) system = a pair containing governors and laws. The governors are also included in the people. S =
    3) sciences = a set containing all sorts of true or partially true (T or F) knowledges.
    4) arts = a set containing all sorts of works based on science. E.g.: medicine, engineering, architecture etc.

    A basic property of a progressing civilization is that the sciences and the arts in it are infinitely growing. In a stagnant civilization, the sciences and the arts do not grow.

    The Ponzi scheme is an element of the laws. There is a relation between the Ponzi scheme and the growth of sciences and arts.

    This is a rough sketch. But I can convert all of that into mathematical formulas, which is part of my work.

    Anyway, it doesn’t need mathematical formulas to prove that a Ponzi scheme cannot last long and that the sciences and the arts, hence civilization, will stagnate after the collapse of the system.

  9. Nestorius
    July 18, 2010 at 12:02 pm

    C = (P,S,SC,A)
    civilization = (People,System,Sciences,Arts)

  10. Gorbachev
    July 18, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Every generation joins the pyramid.

    It’s why we need new generations. Or new members. Like the Borg.

    Civilization is a meme. We need new breeders to keep it going.

  11. gbadebo olamide daniel
    July 20, 2010 at 12:53 pm


  12. rz
    March 3, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    Don’t forget The Limits to Growth.

  1. July 18, 2010 at 2:20 am
  2. July 20, 2010 at 5:35 am
  3. May 28, 2011 at 2:35 pm
  4. August 25, 2011 at 4:23 pm
  5. October 10, 2011 at 3:48 pm
  6. November 10, 2011 at 4:46 pm
  7. November 15, 2011 at 2:00 am
  8. November 21, 2011 at 7:18 pm
  9. February 6, 2012 at 8:08 am
  10. April 10, 2012 at 9:45 pm
  11. July 16, 2012 at 12:24 pm
  12. February 12, 2014 at 6:24 pm

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