A Type of MGTOW, Not Game, Will Dominate The Future

My view of the world is grounded in percentages, probabilities and dispassionate observations rather than just trying to see patterns which validate my beliefs. Consequently I am willing to consider possibilities that most people might find ‘depressing’ and ‘negative’. Here is one of my predictions, based on a few years of observation-

A form of MGTOW, rather than “game”, will be the predominant response of men to the current dystopic sexual environment.

I am fully aware that most men believe that the MGTOW option involves a celibate to semi-celibate hermit like existence on the fringes of society. In my opinion, the popular image of MGTOW is due to the disproportionate web presence of its most zealotic and ‘ideologically-pure’ followers. The reality for most men is going to be far more different. But let us first understand why “game” is unlikely to be anything more than a minority option. Many of you believe that most men won’t succeed at “game” because they are not “good enough”, interested enough, have low testosterone or whatever bullshit you can dredge up. I see a much bigger and far more fundamental problem-

Even pretty, sexually skilled and otherwise reasonable women are not much fun to be around after you have finished having sex with them.

Did you get it? Over the long-term, the value of a woman around your own age is largely proportional to her looks and sexual availability. As almost every one of you know, those things don’t improve as a woman goes past her mid-20s. In previous era, the effect of this factor was largely mitigated by considerations such as children, mortgages, social expectations etc. However that is no longer the case.

Since most younger men today do not go down that path in their early to mid-20s, they have no sunken investment in maintaining relationships with women they don’t care much about. The converse is also true as most women no longer require the co-operation of men to raise a child or two. Therefore both sexes have a far more cynical view of each other- something that is greatly facilitated by the socio-cultural mores of our times.

The relationship between men and women today is therefore far more like an adversarial business partnership. Both parties are far more interested in screwing each other over than playing nice to achieve a common good.

In my opinion, old-fashioned relationships are dying out because men are increasingly becoming aware of the poor cost/benefit ratio and low probability of “success”. Now combine with awareness with the mediocre looks and sexual skills of the median women in an age of high quality, ambient and free porn. There is little or no incentive for the median guy to chase after the median girl.

Now this does not mean that men will prefer porn over sex with all women. I certainly would never pass an opportunity, paid or otherwise, to bang the living daylights out of a hot chick. But it is also extremely unlikely that I will invest significant time, or effort, in a mediocre girl. Nor would I work my ass off to make enough money to keep any women “happy” or satisfy any older social expectations about men of my age.

Why care about people and institutions who have abandoned you?

I would rather spend my time living well. That means not working hard, eating and drinking well, buying sex, fapping to porn and doing what I really enjoy. Isn’t it closer to MGTOW rather than “game”?

What do you think? Comments?

  1. P Ray
    May 19, 2012 at 3:37 am

    Spend your time living well, controlling the resources, and knowing that if a woman wants a break from you, she better give you a break.
    Anyone thinking that relationships are not transactions is dreaming,
    As an example, many women choose to get in relationships with some men to keep those men off the market to other women that are attracted to him (it’s the “being wanted by other women” that got her interested).
    Men who do not heed this and Briffault’s Law, are doomed to be used by women without being compensated in return.

  2. May 19, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    MGTOW don’t reproduce, and so will become extinct.

    The continued existence of the universe is immaterial once you are dead. So there is no reason to care about that possibility.

    Plus even those in marriages are either having a couple or no kids anyway.

    • hans
      May 19, 2012 at 2:36 pm

      Neither do gays, man are they extinct.

      BTW, they DO knock bitches up. But then they get divorced and raped in divorce court.
      Where the fuck do you think the MGTOW “movement” is recruiting from, numbnut.

      The forever alone guys? Congrats for getting hooked on that feminist/PUA(virtually the same BTW) red herring.

    • May 19, 2012 at 2:48 pm

      The question wasn’t what is material, the question was who will dominate the future. In the contest to knock up women, those with Game will beat MGTOW. The future belongs to those with natural Game, basically immoral jerks, and to the religious who have many kids.

      As hans so well demonstrates, MGTOW are part of modern culture with all the incivility of any liberal. MGTOW is really a part of liberalism and will disappear as liberalism collapses. Gays have never been a significant percentage of the population. There have been cultures with a lot of bisexuals, but that works evolutionarily.

      • cynical youth
        May 20, 2012 at 8:28 am

        What you forget is that PUA’s (the intelligent ones) take steps to make sure they DON’T knock up women thanks to the lack of social pressure. The future if anything will belong to neither MGTOW or PUA’s but to the underclass (particularly the Hispanic and Muslim underclasses in the USA and Europe respectively).

      • May 20, 2012 at 1:50 pm

        cynical youth, I didn’t forget. That’s why I said “natural Game”. PUAs don’t have natural game, it is fake. A lot of the underclass does have natural game.

      • J.M.
        May 20, 2012 at 3:31 pm

        and Franklin, what do you call natural game? Stupidness? For me game tactics are becoming part of my personality as I have improved my life in other areas so I don`t think game is fake.

      • May 20, 2012 at 3:45 pm

        I shouldn’t have said “fake” game, I should have said “learned” as opposed to natural.

      • jerdog
        July 5, 2012 at 3:14 pm

        feminist sympathizer…be gone!

    • December 15, 2015 at 3:59 pm

      Actually MGTOWs do reproduce – some of them. They’re just called “deadbeat dads”.

  3. DieHard
    May 19, 2012 at 5:29 pm

    While this is basically an against game blog anyway, I have been around the game block the last two years and I now also view game as being almost over. PUA game was just silly and is mostly done. Guys meeting women will continue because that’s natural. The game that has evolved into social CONservatism shows how it has gone full circle with guys who said they were not good with women to begin with became self-appointed game blog gurus and most of these are still not very good with women but their followers continue to worship their blogs as a bunch of these gurus are now saying to find a “good girl” for marriage, so they are now basically back to the beginning where they began. A saying is once married it’s game over. In the real world there is not much of a game community. Now like the CONservitives many game gurus are saying to get married, so with the hyper religious they surprisingly fit into the majority of society. Game as most guys try it might be getting less effective as more guys who are not very smooth (I would use other more underground terms to further explain why they are not effective) and this is having more women catching on and being even more stuck-up (although I can handle any type of woman and I don’t call women b*tches, as I actually am attracted to this type). Even if game (and more advanced techniques beyond game) remain not the majority, there likely will still be relationships as the majority though because I have read many guys on game sites say basically that it’s not just s*x that they want, as they say (possibly with an inner femininity) that they really want a relationship with a “good girl” for a LTR (and even shockingly they still say for marriage) because they seek affection and a family, so therefore it appears the majority of guys (even after learning some about “game”) will still enter into relationships (even as a provider to her agenda and their family). Unlike almost every other game-guy (guru and commenters) I as a “bad man” am attracted to the “bad girls/sl*ts/wh*res) for s*x and not a LTR or marriage, as I only do multiple-STR’s and SNL’s. Some guys can game or act confident (with other vibes) to get a girlfriend, but then they revert back to complaining/whining while thinking they are being an a**hole, but they are really just being a wuss as they were to begin with and both of these constant extremes decrease her arousal, then the relationship becomes about her materialistic agenda anyway. Thus, the end game for most guys in game ends up in defeat. Myself, I entered a game door, learned a few things and also saw that most other guys are schmucks and that for me game (as most mainstream game gurus are now weakly/incorrectly teaching it at least) is over, and I walked out of that game through a different door, and I will still meet women in underground (above what is currently called game) ways. The current tone in much of game and with men and women (as this post said) is that most people seem to now have an attitude that is no fun/that they cannot allow themselves or others around them to enjoy life before death, and I reject this mindset as being the way to game or the way to live before I Die Hard.

  4. May 19, 2012 at 6:58 pm

    from a conversation at the beach today…

    So I was drinking beer with a male acquiantance….

    a female friend of his shows up, we introduce ourselves….

    I mention at one point, I’m lonely and I’d like to get a dog.

    Girl says, “Dogs are great, but you’ll have to plan to be home for the animal allot more.”

    Guy says, “Why don’t you just get a girlfriend.”

    She says, “Dogs are lower maintenance and they’ll always be happy to see you.”

    Mind you, this is a woman who said this. I suppose if a man said this a feminist would call that misogynistic. And at one point she mentioned an ex husband, I didn’t get her age but she probably wasn’t over 25. It’s like she knows what’s up and when not in “polite” company speaks the truth.

    as far as the MGTOW-I think those internet forums are a little extreme as are you Mr. Diablopoops, however– more and more men are “opting out.” Unless having children is the most important thing in your life, marriage isn’t a good deal (and even then it’s a risky proposition.)

  5. DieHard
    May 20, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    Another part of the “fundamental problem and the poor cost/benefit ratio” is that once in marriage the woman has the legal power to on any day to no-fault divorce the man and thus destroy him financially. Would I go into business with a person where there is a 70 percent chance that within a few years I will lose at least half of everything I have, and my business decision is no I would not. There has been a few shocking to me things on many game blogs recently for instance the amount of guys who say they hate sl*ts (because I thought most guys were out to get laid, so personally I completely disagree with them as I like sl*ts myself), and that most guys still want to get married (despite all the downsides including those mentioned in this post that I basically agree with and the others I have said here and this doesn’t make much sense), so now I don’t read any game blogs as of last month. When I got into learning about game I thought it was about guys teaching how to get laid, then recently much of it has instead turned away from meeting women for s*x into angry rants on “men’s rights issues and politics,” and personally I am not into that stuff or politics either, so I decided to mostly do my own things and I rarely even talk about these concepts any more except for what I do myself, and I won’t make my own blogs because they usually have bloggers/commenters just arrogantly arguing instead of learning , and I only teach a few techniques in person to people I interact with. I really like porn, and I have learned a few skills by viewing porn, however I don’t watch it very often to save time most days, although it is the quickest for self-satisfaction. I would say escorts cost too much, it’s much cheaper than divorce(s), but I wouldn’t want to spend more than $100 for an hour, and prices will probably keep going up unless it was made very common and that’s not happening anytime soon. I have learned things reading this Dissention blog and I like the frequent reminder comments such as, “Why care about people and institutions who have abandoned you/don’t please people who don’t like you anyway/etc, etc.” Important concepts, thanks.

  6. May 20, 2012 at 4:38 pm

    anyways, the “manosphere” is a pretty contradictory place….

    you would think the inmalafide guys would love “sexually liberated women.” However there are tons of derogatory comments there.

    where to even start with the white power idiots. They talk about racial purity, but if they actually had a chance with a smoking hot mixed race/persian/indian whatever woman, would they still go on and on about their HBD B.S.

    I’m mostly focusing on carving out the best life for myself in a f*cked and corrupt world. You really can’t control the actions of others, just watch out for yourself….

    • July 8, 2014 at 12:12 pm

      You know, I was reading one of Fatt… umm… Matt Forney’s blog topics months ago about the Miriam Weeks chick (college student turned abuse-porn star) and he justified the bondage and chastity of women in the Middle East in that topic. The fragile egos and fear or female sexuality automatically came to mind and I just can’t see how anyone can justify that shit, under any circumstances. But yes, Forney’s blog is full of derogatory statements. I did find that one topic brutal and over-the-top, yet truthful… the one about why fat girls are not deserving of love. He seems obsessed with BBWs for various reasons. I also like the topic about The Case Against Female Education.

  7. May 21, 2012 at 12:15 am

    An interesting and true observation by Robert Lindsay:

    “This is an all male group. All all male groups will end up like this sooner or sooner. They will get more and more nutty, violent, aggro and ultra macho, and then the sociopaths will take over. This is the typical progression of any all male grouping. The only thing that tones this crap down is the presence of women. One reason marriage was invented. To prevent groupings like the Manosphere from becoming commonplace.”

    • P Ray
      May 21, 2012 at 1:29 am

      Or is it so that men will be bogged down with a wife and kids so they can’t quickly move on as cupcake has put down a deposit on a money-sink?
      A social institution such as marriage does succeed VERY well in maintaining the status quo.
      ‘Cause the wife isn’t going to risk ostracism from her social group,
      and hubby is too tired to think that all the work he is putting in, is just making him a more tempting target for divorce theft or cuckoldry.

      • May 22, 2012 at 4:05 am

        Lindsay isn’t talking about the modern form of marriage, which is marriage just in name.

        Besides, you’re not looking at the important issue here: the new world consisting of male groups. You should ask yourself: How am I going to survive in such a world? The future will be tough and dangerous.

      • P Ray
        May 24, 2012 at 12:32 am

        Not tough and dangerous if you can bring something to the table.
        I wonder what degrees in Gender Studies, Psychology and International Relations bring to the table.

      • EvilOne
        March 3, 2014 at 12:19 am

        P Ray,
        You think it will be tough and dangerous for women as well?

      • P Ray
        March 4, 2014 at 2:08 am

        Probably. Because they will have to trade their bodies for social advancement.
        Oh wait, they already do that. I guess they’ll have to watch out for the younger and tighter models then.

  8. January 24, 2014 at 4:33 pm

    Agree with everything you’ve touched on here. Tis better to go it alone, have fun, not worry about marriage certificates and prenuptials that won’t do squat when it comes down to it, and just do what you enjoy.

    I’ve only had 1 sexual partner (an awesome 6+ years FwB situation) for my life thusfar, but hey…porn is readily available too. I have my own bachelor pad, my videogames, my cool job, and am free to sleep in, eat what I want, cook and clean when I want, and no one screams and cusses when I get home at 3am from a D&D game.

    And marriage is something to be strived for…why?

    • EvilOne
      July 8, 2014 at 4:30 pm

      FYI: The above is female.

      • July 8, 2014 at 5:00 pm

        True, but in body only. Does a chromosomal mistake make my words any less potent to those who read them without knowing my sex? My mind is male, and anyone who visits my blog knows I am a seeker of fair treatment for all, but especially cis men as they are the group that is so “privileged” that numerous laws, double standards, and traditions are directly harmful to them.

        I may not have a penis, but I gladly stand up for the sex I am most connected to.

      • EvilOne
        July 8, 2014 at 5:51 pm

        I haven’t read your blog.

        But then again, it doesn’t really matter. As a woman in body you cant comprehend mens viewpoints. You dont face the same challenges. So at least it should be *stated* that you are female.

        (Nor am I saying those challenges are uniform.

        *) A big ugly guy faces the challenge of women not wanting him.

        *) A small handsome guy faces the challenge of men attacking him twice over – once because men are assholes, and secondly because men are jealous.

        And so on… ).

      • July 8, 2014 at 7:01 pm

        You are right…unless I want to spend thousands on hormones and surgery, I cannot present as a male IRL. If I was fortunate enough to have an androgynous/boyish build, I might get away with it. But alas, I have a very feminine figure and it can’t be easily hidden like I could do in middle and high school.

        I apologize if it sounded like I was snapping at you for “outing” me as physically female. I’m just a big proponent of “tits or gtfo”, and I don’t want other commenters to think I’m trying to use my sex as a leverage.

        I wish I was born male.
        I was not.
        But I can at least be “seen” as neutral/assumed male online.
        This is why I don’t mention gender or sex until it’s pertinent to the conversation…

      • EvilOne
        July 8, 2014 at 5:53 pm

        “I’ve only had 1 sexual partner (an awesome 6+ years FwB situation) for my life thusfar”

        Woman getting a sexual partner is probably way different than a man getting one.

      • July 8, 2014 at 6:53 pm

        Probably, in most cases. I was a virgin till 22 though. Not because I couldn’t get dates or sexual partners…I am told I’m an attractive woman, and I got asked out a lot in high school and college. Heck, I get asked out by customers a few times a month even now.

        But due to the 7 years of molestation by my stepfather growing up (age 10-17 when I left home), I’d developed a severe touch phobia and had convinced myself I was asexual/had no libido whatsoever. It took over a year of patient help and sexual reawakening from said FwB before I could finally share my virginity with him…something I will always be eternally grateful for.

        So my story isn’t quite the norm. I imagine you are correct though, and most women are able to get sexual partners quite easily. What I heard in the locker room growing up would certainly suggest it.

      • EvilOne
        July 8, 2014 at 6:14 pm

        “I may not have a penis, but I gladly stand up for the sex I am most connected to.”

        Men dont particularly feel connection with other men…

      • July 8, 2014 at 6:43 pm

        I mean the one I wish I’d been born as, and the one all my friends are. Sorry, should have been clearer…

      • EvilOne
        July 8, 2014 at 7:25 pm

        “I wish I was born male.”

        Unless you mean a male in the top 20% in a majority of relevant traits – I dont think you know what you are wishing for.

      • July 8, 2014 at 7:39 pm

        I do. I wish I was born in a body that didn’t feel wrong every day.


        I would never be so naive to think that men have it easy…I’m well aware that being male comes with it’s own set of challenges and struggles. But to have people look at you and treat you as the gender you are inside, rather than the one your body is? What sweet relief that would be, even as it brings other pain.

  9. Denstar51
    December 10, 2014 at 2:44 pm

    Some men have always been abused by women and both govt and local police let them get away with it. i’m sick and tired at 63 of abusive whorey or just plain American female pigs. Maybe foreign is better by i plan to MGTOW my last years, American women are and always have been assholes, NOT worth relationships,buying prostitutes is a better deal in this culture. Fuck feminism & equality. Who needs female men.

    • December 11, 2014 at 7:47 am

      63? My apologies in advance, but… too bad you can’t get those years back. I’m glad I’ve learned early.

  10. P Ray
    January 30, 2015 at 4:54 pm

    A white person saying
    “people who join ISIS are those who never got laid”

    The reply is, of course,
    you obviously think sex is something very special, to be doled out to the “deserving” …
    so maybe, you also, “get what you deserve” by discriminating against others.

    Also LOL at their attempt to equate MGTOW with terrorism. Chronically single women such as Laurie Dann cause problems too … not everyone is as “responsible” as Christine Chubbuck.

  1. May 22, 2012 at 8:57 pm
  2. May 2, 2014 at 3:29 am

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