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Why has Social Pressure not Increased Fertility Rates in Asian Countries?

Few will dispute the idea that Asian societies and cultures have always used high levels of social pressure to sustain themselves even if doing so resulted in high levels of poverty, unhappiness, misery and early death for most of their members. Before we go further, let me remind you that I am not claiming other cultures and civilizations were (or are) significantly better in that respect. Indeed, I have noted in numerous previous posts that all cultures, nations and civilizations are ponzi schemes. Having said that, it is rather obvious that east-asian cultures are (and always have been) especially good at being ponzi schemes.

Between their worship of, and deference to, “tradition” and a profound unwillingness to change unless such change is forced upon them– it is clear that those cultures are interested in perpetuating bad dynamic equilibriums rather than move to better ones. Yet for thousands of years they were able to sustain this self-inflicted hell largely because of high rates of fertility (aka disposable suckers). And once again, non-asian cultures and societies were not much better in that regard.

A lot have changed in the last hundred, and especially the last sixty, years. For one, we have seen voluntary global reductions in fertility rates to the extent that many countries now have barely replacement to below replacement rates of fertility. While the growth and spread of education, mores and technology had their role in this change, we have still largely ignored one of the most important questions surrounding this change. Why are so many people not interested in having kids at all or just having one or two? I believe that the answer lies in the fact that human existence under the prevailing socio-economic systems is (and always has been) highly dystopic. But that is a topic for another post or discussion.

There is however a related question that is fairly specific to east-asian cultures and countries. As I have said before- the ponzi scheme of “civilization” requires a naive and youth heavy demographic profile to persist for extended periods of time. This is especially true of the societies that systemically enforce cultural autism to survive. Now factor in the effect of a sharp reduction in the number of naive suckers caused by a serious and persistent global decline in rates of east-asian fertility. How would systems whose very existence depended on a constant and large supply of naive suckers react to a serious shortfall in fuel?

Let me pose that question in another way- Why are asian societies and cultures who are so good at enforcing self-destructive behavior among their members through social pressure unable to make them provide more fuel.. I mean kids.. for the ponzi scheme? Why is social pressure to enforce self-destructive behavior incapable of making them breed more?

There are those who will say that the large and sustained decline in east-asian fertility is a logical response to overcrowding or poverty. Some will say that it has to do with living in high stress societies which may be partially true. But none of that stopped them from having tons of kids in previous eras, did it? So why now? What changed? Some readers might say that westernization or feminism has made women less willing to have kids and there is something to that argument. However the fertility rates in east-asian countries are low even in those countries where women are not expected to work after marriage- such as Japan.

So what is going on? Why are countries with huge levels of social group-think and pressure unable to make their subjects.. I mean members.. have more kids? Why can’t societies who can browbeat their members in doing anything else not make them have more kids? It is certainly not for lack of trying.

What do you think? Comments?

  1. P Ray
    February 12, 2014 at 8:15 pm

    Because the cost of a proper education and housing in a location that allows interaction with the socially/politically/economically influential, is very expensive … and now Asian society i having to deal with the reality that their stupid parents didn’t foresee, “it’s not what you know, it’s WHO you know”.
    Besides that, is the obvious and apparent female hypocrisy where they claim “Asian values” but want to be part of “Western culture”(technically, EVERY high roller nowadays seems to be “Western” in some ways: do you observe that:
    – Lenovo doesn’t market its computers with women in the qipao or men in the changshan,
    – Sony doesn’t market its computers with women in the kimono or men in the “Albert” (male kimono)
    – HCL Infosystems doesn’t market its computers with women in saris or men in dhotis?)

    The worst kind of women to run across, are the Westernised Asian ones, as they typically demand traditionalism while claiming modernity when it suits.

    Also, many men are wising up to the reality that when women “date” a man, they are typically giving him “the chance to spend his money on her”.

    Along with the also obvious reality, that women date “up” in many ways, most notably and obvious by looking: guy taller than them, earns more than them, more educated than them, richer than them.

    They don’t yet realise when the time comes for them to build a family, that most guys don’t want a banged-out whore for a wife (and I can tell you that the dreams of many women are shattered the moment a guy asks them: What’s your number?)

    Asian parents have no idea how to address this problem, as being milquetoast got many of them where they are today, and they are very conscious of “face” … to the extent that many a man has been guilted into marrying a former slut.

    Oh, and the idea of morality?
    How many women in Asia put their hands up saying they are willing to submit to virginity testing?
    The good thing about virginity testing, though …
    is that they need it to prove rape happened.
    So, women can’t get rid of those tests … unless they want to pervert the course of justice.
    Ha Ha!

  2. Hamsta
    February 12, 2014 at 8:28 pm

    Its not a ponzi scheme. It is an unconscious response to the prime directive of DNA survival.

    In perilous times, more children are produced (within the limitation of energy availability) to ensure a better chance at DNA survival. Perilous times means a high loss rate due to infant mortality, war, and plagues as well as periodic famines and ice ages.

    Times in Asia are pretty damn good compared to the last 5 thousand years. So, with a much lower infant mortality rate and the technological ability to control against many of the visisitudes of nature, the message to the population goes out – “don’t need as many babies”. That way, natural resources are preserved by not having a population boom that would unnecessarily consume resources that would thwart the new safety in survival rates.

    The practical pathway to justify the DNA imperative is that parents realize they now do not need to have 10 kids to ensure that 3 or 4 make it to adulthood so that a) there are grandchildren, and b) family around to look after them in old age. Or, it could take the form of increased homosexuality or reluctance to marry and follow a more selfish way of life.

    • joesantus
      February 13, 2014 at 9:02 am

      …although, IF DNA imperative does exist within human biology, then such an imperative could hypothetically utilize what manifests as and amounts to a “ponzi scheme” on multiple levels — its goal being to ensure continued reproduction therefore survival of the species.

  3. February 13, 2014 at 4:41 am

    Hmmm…”DNA imperative,” Sounds like their DNA doesn’t know what it’s doing, since Japan is heading towards collapse. As is the USA, Germany and several other “advanced” countries.

    • joesantus
      February 13, 2014 at 8:02 am

      Wouldn’t necessarily have to be “beneficial in the shorter term” even if lower fertility rates in survival-friendlier populaces are due to a “DNA imperative”.

      IF DNA somehow responds via a feedback mechanism to “lower mortality rates”, then resultant “collapses” of “advanced countries”, while causing “suffering” to those populaces in a shorter term, might nevertheless result in further substantial reductions of consumption of resources in the long term. What wars, disease, and infant mortalities accomplished previously might now be accomplished (and perhaps those former population checks consequently restored) by the deterioration of those “advanced” populaces.

      DNA imperative, therefore (IF such an imperative exists), might operate impassively for the long-term good, by negatively impacting “advanced countries” in the shorter term in order to positively impact and ensure the survival of the species as a whole in the long term.

      • Webe
        February 14, 2014 at 3:27 am

        Well speaking of demographics and biology…
        Perhaps the human species has reached the end of its life and the population pyramid is overturning — gradually more older specimens and fewer younger ones, so the base of the pyramid has flipped upside down, signaling terminal decline. This would presage the species succumbing to natural background extinction.

      • joesantus
        February 14, 2014 at 1:38 pm

        The overall global fertility rate is presently lower, but the numbers reflect the effect of the substantially lower rates in Western Europe, North America, and some other developed regions. However, in several regions of the world, fertility rates remain high, well-above “population replacement” birth rates. I wonder, therefore, if rather than the global rate indicating a terminal decline of the species, the rate indicates an adjustment — the highly-consumptive developed regions might experience severe population decline, which would tend to conserving global resources, while those other regions’ higher fertility rates will ensure survival of the species?

  4. February 13, 2014 at 8:10 am

    Asian women are bunch of sell out whores. they are more than happy to sucky sucky white man long time

    • joesantus
      February 13, 2014 at 9:13 am

      Awww, c’mon, at least don’t malign whores by attaching their title to “sell-outs”. Whores — escorts, call girls, and other typical prostitutes — are majorically honest, hardworking businesswomen, who are upfront with men about what their motives and terms are and treat all their clients fairly.

      • February 13, 2014 at 4:33 pm

        thats because they want to fuck white men, not other asian men

    • Ardia
      February 14, 2014 at 8:19 am

      Maybe you should stop sucking white cock yourself by posting on boards filled with white people primarily concerned with white people problems?

      • February 14, 2014 at 9:33 am

        posting on white people’s board is not physically sucking them off like the Asian women are. and the topic concerns fertility rate in ASIAN countries

      • Ardia
        February 14, 2014 at 9:57 am

        Sure bud… whatever. Keep dreaming that they give a hoot about you in any way, shape or form because you publicly prostrate your agreement with their views.

    • P Ray
      February 15, 2014 at 6:57 am

      Asian men put themselves at a disadvantage by trying to be the guy Asian women can go to AFTER she’s been dumped.
      That is why Asian women give Asian men the bad treatment: They’re around to provide a safety net AND she makes damn sure he’s only got her as the option … by badmouthing him to women of other races.
      There are reasons Asian men, need to stay the hell away from Asian women:
      – Your parents are typically too stupid to realise that the modern Asian women has learnt to gold-dig with the best,
      – Use your culture against you to promote unsustainable chivalry AND excessive material demands YET demand education which many will NEVER use (as “IT’S THE MAN’S JOB TO EARN MONEY”)
      – Stop your development with relationships by backstabbing you to women of other ethnicities
      – And at the same time, expect your loyalty since “I’m the only one who will accept you!”.

      Seriously, just stay away from those “me love you long time” girls.

      And, they’ll be back to “fuck you”, just wait till they’re past 30.
      Of course, by then they’ll be a hive of STDs and other issues … hence not worth any long-term commitment (Asian women, in Western society, have the highest rates of STDs)
      http://www.bu.edu/phpbin/news-cms/news/?de…92&id=52827

  5. webe
    February 13, 2014 at 10:33 am

    Simple, it’s the pill, and concommitant social and cultural changes. Many of these changes may take a few generations to propagate fully. But it changes the course of nature.

  6. anon666
    February 14, 2014 at 1:55 pm

    It’s because children are not an economic asset in a post-agricultural setting, but a liability. The only reason to have them is if you find the idea of raising children appealing.

    At any rate, in a world of increasing automation, will we really need an exponentially expanding army of laborers to keep things running?

  7. Anon19211
    February 15, 2014 at 5:24 pm

    I for one think it’s a good thing populations are leveling off and the people who once made their living off of their children are slowly dying off in favor of people who genuinely care for and want to have children for their own sake.

  8. February 16, 2014 at 10:13 am

    AD, You ever feel starved for sex/love/affection from an attractive person? How do you get through these times / bear with it so it doesn’t hurt your job performance so you can get the moneys to pay for it?

    I am too cynical to actually care about what other people think about me- though I sometimes pretend to give a shit. Once you know that all expressions of love and affection are lies, scams and scripts, there is only one person whose opinion really matters- your own. I live for my own amusement.

  9. February 17, 2014 at 5:46 pm

    P Ray :
    Asian men put themselves at a disadvantage by trying to be the guy Asian women can go to AFTER she’s been dumped.
    That is why Asian women give Asian men the bad treatment: They’re around to provide a safety net AND she makes damn sure he’s only got her as the option … by badmouthing him to women of other races.

    That’s the same game that black women tried to run on black men and the women of other races who lust black men for years. They even lied by saying “Black men don’t eat pussy”, or “White/Asian girls are pushovers” or “Black men are living on the down low.”

  10. February 23, 2014 at 12:46 am

    Reblogged this on oogenhand and commented:
    It is obvious that East-Asia should get a new religion.

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