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Southern Working Class Whites and the Real “Problem” with Kansas

One idea that has gained popularity among american intellectuals of the liberal persuasion within the last 10-15 years goes something like this:

The dominance of conservatives politicians in southern (and some non-southern flyover) states is due to their success at conning working class whites into voting against their own economic interest.

To put it another way, liberals believe that working class whites are decent human beings who are repeatedly tricked into voting against their best economic interests. This belief is the basis of books such as What’s the Matter with Kansas?. Many liberals believe that the white working class of southern (and some flyover) states left democrats because the later became too “culturally distant” and have not been able to provide enough decent jobs in those states. But do those explanations stand up to rational scrutiny? Or is there another far more obvious, but unmentionable, reason behind the rightward shifts in southern states?

Let us first examine the soundness of cultural explanations for the ascendancy of conservatives in the post-1980 (actually post-1968) south. The conventional explanations for this phenomena invoke public reactions to a series of socio-legal changes that occurred between 1955-1980. These include civil rights legislation, legalized abortion, sexual revolution and mass entry of women in the work force. Liberals want to believe that these changes somehow alienated a majority of “good” Americans living in those states.

While I do agree that these changes were large and controversial, it is worth noting that the end results of their implementation has been fairly uniform across the USA. The percentages and incidences of single motherhood in Kansas or Alabama are not that different those in Washington or Oregon. Similarly the percentages of blacks who vote in southern states today are not much different from those who live in the much less shitty coastal ones. Nor are fat white working class women in Alabama or Mississippi any less sexually promiscuous than their counterparts in Massachusetts or Maine. My point is- the progressive socio-legal changes which started in the 1960s have been far more uniform in their effect across the USA than most people realize or want to believe.

The idea that working class whites in the south are trying to preserve the old ways does not hold water simply because those ways no longer exist, except perhaps in the fringes, of those societies.

So why do these morons keep on voting people who promise to brings back things that are dead and beyond any hope of resurrection? Let us consider another angle, namely that the rightward drift of the south is a reaction to the loss of traditional blue-collar jobs. While there is some validity to the idea that people who lose their previously stable and well-paying livelihoods might turn to anti-establishment ideologies, it does not two aspects of the rightward movements of southern states. Firstly- why don’t north-eastern and mid-western states, who also lost a lot of blue-collar jobs, elect the same kind of people as those below the Mason-Dixon line? Secondly- why do southerners keep on electing politicians who actively undermine their economic interests?

Therefore the argument that southern working class whites drifted to right-wing politicians because of economic neglect by more left-wing ones also does not hold much water, unless we assume they are mentally retarded.

While it is certainly plausible that southern working-class whites are intellectually inferior to their counterparts in other parts of the country, it is also highly unlikely that most are mentally retarded. And this brings me to the history of their voting patterns- specifically how they switched their voting patterns after 1968. As many of you know, prior to the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the democratic party had no problem getting the votes of working-class whites in southern states. Of course, that was also the era when the Democrats (and not the Republicans) were the party of American Apartheid. The passage of the Civil Rights Act under LBJ changed that forever and permanently antagonized the southern white working-class voter.

But why would simply giving equal rights to blacks cause such a large negative reaction among working-class whites in the south?

It is not as if equality is a finite resource whose distribution makes it scarcer. So what is going on? Why would legal remedies to end racial discrimination evoke such strong reactions among southern working-class whites? Is there a better explanation this seemingly irrational behavior.

Well.. there is, but that explanation requires the observer to abandon certain preconceptions about what working-class whites are and are not. Too often, polite public discourse tries to portray working-class whites as honest and decent human beings who just happen to be gullible enough to fall for racist demagogues. But what if that is not true? What if opportunist politicians are merely saying out what their constituents really believe? What if the identity and self-image of those subhumans is principally based on the constant abuse of blacks and the zeros-um exploitation of each other? What if all of the attempts by those subhumans to justify conservative beliefs through selective readings of religious scriptures are based on their true desires? What if all of their pathetic attempts to fellate the rich, even if they crap on them, are based in their world view?

My point is that the behavior of southern working-class whites is far easier to understand (and model) if we assume that it is the external manifestations of their mental world.

And this brings us to the question about how to fix that problem. The conventional liberal view is that more education and exposure to a more cosmopolitan world will somehow make those subhumans less so. However many real world indices suggest that education or exposure to a better way does not make them less subhuman. There is however another path to achieve a final and lasting solution to this problem, especially if we are willing to consider the possibility that these subhumans (or their progeny) are functionally incapable of ever being human.

What do you think? Comments?

  1. Gouverneur Morris
    March 5, 2014 at 7:33 am

    So, let me get this straight: you think southern working class whites vote for the GOP because they’re racist?

    If this is your argument, this is nothing but standard leftist boilerplate. You’re not saying anything new.

    Secondly, a simple explanation for why these whites vote for the GOP exists: namely, they don’t want the government to meddle in their lives, especially when it comes to how they conduct their business.

    But that’s not acceptable to you, is it? Which is why this reason was not included as a possibility in your article.

    Racism is only one manifestation of their zero-sum worldview.

    • anon666
      March 8, 2014 at 6:02 pm

      No, he thinks they vote GOP because they’re assholes who enjoy being assholes, even to the detriment of their own personal well-being.

  2. Wilson
    March 5, 2014 at 8:41 am

    The working class whites in Northern areas aren’t bothered by the loss of blue-collar jobs…because that class of people really doesn’t really exist any more. Many moved, some subsist off of accumulated wealth, others depend on government benefits or income from a no-work government job (basically living off the devaluation of dollar and America’s collective accumulated wealth), or they just fully degenerated into the permanent underclass. So maybe those liberal economic policies aren’t actually in their interest after all?

  3. Sven Lawson
    March 5, 2014 at 12:35 pm

    Maybe they don’t care to be ruled by people whose identity is constructed in large part around hating them.

    Working class whites have repeatedly demonstrated their willingness to eat shit for very little money and then make themselves believe that they are eating high quality chocolate. In that respect they are inferior to dogs and cats.

    • March 5, 2014 at 6:15 pm

      http://illusionofsanity.com/blog/

      That moron does not realize that the universe does not require life to exist.

    • Thanatos
      March 6, 2014 at 2:37 am

      Dogs and cats have no original written language, and their “languages”, consisting mainly of emoting howling noise, only have the ability to express about 100 “words”.
      In that respect they are exactly like niggers.

      Whites will indeed sacrifice much for very little return. That’s why whites are the only people with functioning democracies and have massive amounts of wealth. Or, what WERE functioning democracies, until the Communists took over.

  4. some redneck
    March 5, 2014 at 4:03 pm

    “Subhumans”. It just doesn’t roll off the tongue like “nigger”. But keep trying. One of these days you’ll come up with a really biting insult. Just not today.

  5. March 5, 2014 at 5:53 pm

    y’know, it’s kind of funny that people think that Chuck Ross and Jack Don-0-van are any different than us feminist’s…

    http://dearwhitefeminists.wordpress.com/update/

  6. Thanatos
    March 6, 2014 at 2:32 am

    Yawn…. This is a new convoluted way of screaming “RAAAAACCIISSST” at everything you oppose. It’s not going to get you anywhere anymore, no matter how you say it.

    As for mentally-retarded Southerners, Conservative Southerners are not the ones who believe astrology is a science,bub.

    “What do you think?”

    I think if you ever try what you’re hinting at, you’re the one who’s going to get your spindly ass turned inside out by the good old boys.

    Look at yourself. You’re calling Southerners subhumans because they’re supposedly “racist” and you’re hinting at exterminating like 50 million Americans for something they didn’t do? That’s ironic as fuck.

    About 4k people were lynched in the Old South, and half of them were fuckin white.

    Why do Southerners vote for the GOP? It makes no sense that they would not want to join those awesome Democrats who make no secret of their desire to fucking KILL them….

    Why do YOU think it is, Sparky?

    It’s because ya’ll are fucking INSANE.

    That’s why I say “Go fuck yourself,Yankee”. Take your dumbass nigger-loving carpetbaggers and all the niggers you love so much and get the fuck out of Dixie.

    We’re the ones who were forced to live beside these fucking animals for 150 years.
    If YOU were*, you’d hate them too.

    *And I don’t mean your criminal-filtering price-bubbled neighborhoods, I mean just any old nigger. The bottom 90, not the talented tenth niggers you PURPOSELY surround YOURselves with as a buffer.

  7. Claude
    March 6, 2014 at 6:40 am

    What exactly makes them ” subhumans” exactly? What do you have against them besides voting Republican, which is common in many states outside of the South?


    The inability to think rationally.

    Also, aren’t you opposed to HBD? You’re hinting that a large population can’t be improved through culture due to biology.

    Finally- underneath all these seemingly insightful posts, are you just another “Indian Race Troll” with a chip on his shoulder?

    Do you think I care (to any worthwhile degree) about what others think about me?

  8. Webe
    March 6, 2014 at 9:08 am

    Actually one of the ironies of democracies is that a very large proportion of people who think they are voting for their own economic interest do not. Then there is the huge mass of people who can’t keep their eye on the ball because they are distracted by issues like women’s rights or gays or guns or god or whatever — issues which are not really on the table and don’t determine their lives. An exception to the rule are people with real wealth and property — their vote does often align with their own interest, especially if they’re sponsoring the politicians instead of some ideology.

    Voting aside, farmers and working class people are generally conservative and often surprise the intellectuals who think they are sticking up for them. Few workers sympathize with the left; they did not support students against Vietnam who thought they would take sides in the class war in the sixties. And a lot of voting takes place in terms of litmus tests, gut feelings and antipathies. The working classes have never, in general, trusted progressives and intellectuals. Many support people they perceive to be “like themselves” in some way. Which for many whites means not blacks or gays.

    The working classes have not drifted that much, it’s the Democrats that have more and more become a party for progressive causes, an alliance for all ethnic minorities, etc.

  9. Claude
    March 6, 2014 at 1:34 pm

    You have been watching a different movie if being irrational is contrary to humanity. Your last paragraph is anything but rational. Surely you don’t include yourself on that tip?

    I definitely don’t think you care what others think of you. If you did you wouldn’t throw worthwhile ideas away with race-based sexual bitterness.

    It’s getting old- I’m Indian/ Asian/ Aspish/5’2″: I can’t compete with mr. Six foot two whitey. So lets keep the hatred going.

    As six foot two whitey I’m telling you: players come in all forms. You yourself are sleeping with finer women than anyone if you’re using escorts. Why this hasn’t cooled your racial rage is beyond me.

    • joesantus
      March 7, 2014 at 12:44 pm

      “As six foot two whitey I’m telling you: players come in all forms. You yourself are sleeping with finer women than anyone if you’re using escorts. Why this hasn’t cooled your racial rage is beyond me.”

      As a 5’8″ whitey who spent ages 15 to 20 as a skinny-fat geek ignored or rejected by women, who went for the taller, broad-shouldered types even if those types didn’t have enough sense to eat with the correct end of a spoon…well, I expect the answer might be, “Because while escorts satisfy a certain level of need, it remains that escorts are only with me because they’re paid to be; otherwise, they’d probably not notice me at all since they personally prefer the 6’2″ studs too.”

      A typical hetero male might be able to rationally cope with what I believe is his biological/reproductive need to feel attractive to women by convincing his conscious self that he doesn’t care what others think; but, I don’t think he can eliminate nor effectively suppress that instinctive need to be desired by women for not merely his money but his entire “package”. The need remains; which, chronically unsatisfied, might lead to severe frustration and even rage.

  10. EvilOne
    March 6, 2014 at 2:59 pm

    As a 5’2 Indian, racial rage will never end because:
    a) 6’2 whitey will get more respect no matter what.
    b) 6’2 whitey can beat me up and he and I both implicitly know it.
    c) 6’2 whitey will get more girls no matter what – relationship wise and ONS wise, while I get nothing, or bust my ass for 1 mediocre girl at best.
    d) Instinct itself makes it hard to approach/court women, as approaching/courting is all about dominance, and its impossible to dominate someone taller than you. While this is certainly not your fault, that is irrelevant after a lifetime of seeing other men enjoy themselves on a visceral level while you dont personally.

    Its pure instinct, on both sides and therefore cannot be mollified.

    Im smarter than almost everyone, somewhat muscular, and have the classic bad boy biker face, but will always be treated as an afterthought, in all male groups and by females.

    The lifelong humiliation of this cannot be expressed in words.

    Think Hutus and Tutsis. The belgians left the Tutsis in control, largely because they were tall, or because of the byproducts of being tall. Until it blew up.

    When it comes to blacks, well they have the opposite problem – they are dumb as rocks, but physically superior. So if I work hard, I get to support him (or 6’2 whitey for that matter) with my tax money while they have in almost every way a superior life – from instinctive safety in moment to moment living, to visceral satisfaction from respect and acknowledgement from other men and attention from women (and doubly so from attention from women without having to emotionally/ financially invest in any particular woman).

    • Yusef
      March 10, 2014 at 5:31 pm

      I’ve seen 6’2 whitey get his ass kicked. I’ve also seen his girl taken away.

      Never underestimate the power of a good mind, even in something as seemingly determined by physical advantage as a fist fight. If you’re smart, and you obviously are, you have all it takes. You’re doing something wrong. Find out what that is and correct it. Don’t be discouraged. Don’t give up.

      I’m 6’0 and caucasian, but I’m speaking from what I’ve seen and what I know.

      Blacks often have a psychological disadvantage in a fight where they are physically superior because they know they’re likely the ones going to jail if the cops come in and break things up. I don’t think blacks are stupid. They don’t share middle-class values and that’s stupidly interpreted as stupidity. If what you say is true– they have superior lives obtained with less stress and effort– just show me how that’s a sign of stupidity. It’s a sign of intelligence if you ask me.

      • EvilOne
        March 11, 2014 at 10:40 am

        I have no idea what to say to your mollifications.

        How often do you see a 5’0 – 5’4 guy with a GENUINELY GOOD LOOKING GIRL?
        How often do you see such a man with a girl who is TALLER than him?
        And how often do see such a man with a genuine smile on his face?
        And this talk about fights – are you crazy? You expect me to have a death wish?

        Im betting, very rarely Probability fallacy if you think once in a blue moon counts..
        Well, they are not 1 in 200 males anymore. When I was in Uni, it was closer to 1 in 12 to 1 in 15.
        Thats what happens when the races are mixed. Politically correct BS about race being about skin color be damned. Its not 1960 anymore.

  11. sth_txs
    March 6, 2014 at 3:31 pm

    I would like the poster to move his happy stink commie European ass to a ghetto filled with stupid black people who kill each other over a pair of $300 Nikes. White libtards are the most racist bastards to ever exist. He is apparently one of the ‘rasis’. How many of them have you ever lived next to?

    Personally, the nogs can go screw themselves. If it is too much trouble for you to take advantage of the free education and make something of yourselves and whatever else they have been granted, yet they are still stupid, well maybe we need to take a look at their inferior cultural behaviors or beliefs.

    I favor the libertarian limited government viewpoint since that would be in my economic interest though neither party does a good job of that since they are run by the elites. I don’t think Perry represents my interests any more than a crappy Democrat would.

    You are proving my point, aren’t you?

    • sth_txs
      March 7, 2014 at 4:53 am

      Actually, I think you have proved mine. You are another socialist hypocrite that will never use their own damn money to do anything. The only racism that I know of is that by some black people and the Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton types. There are plenty of hispanic politicians (another bull shit designation) that like to stir up crap for votes.

      So when you will be moving to a ghetto black neighborhood?

      Alternatively all of that money funneled to the undeserving 0.1% could be used to eliminate poverty.

      • Webe
        March 7, 2014 at 9:56 am

        Actually nobody owns any money. It all belongs to the government/ banks. You are no allow to cut it or punch holes in it, and burning it is technically a crime. If you do actually pay your taxes with cash instead of with numbers, they put the money in the garbage can and print up some more. It’s a metaphor for the cycle of life.

  12. Butt Cheeks
    March 6, 2014 at 5:35 pm

    There was another article recently from Pandagon along the same line of thinking. Although Pandagon did go so far as to call Southern GOP voters sub-human. Pandagon did say that the reason Southern GOP consistently vote for policies that are against their own self interest is because they vote with their resentments.

    I’ve always struggled with figuring out Southern GOP motivations. I know a lot of it stemmed from racism but it still didn’t explain a lot of their inconsistent political ideology. For example:

    They’re against abortion on religious grounds and the sanctity of life. But they love wars.

    They love to complain about minorities and how they suck up welfare. How minorities purposely have children to get more welfare. Yet they are against providing sex education, or any kind of birth control to anyone. This doesn’t make sense at all, if you really are against welfare wouldn’t you support a strategy that reduces welfare rolls over the long term.

    They’re against government spending but all of the red states in the USA are all poor with only a few exceptions, and most blue states are wealthy. On average blue states pay a net positive of federal taxes into the federal government, while red states TAKE and net positive of federal tax money. Blue states support government spending even though they’d be wealthier if they weren’t subsidizing red states. Red states are against this why?

    But if you put this in the framework of resentment it makes sense.

    Southern GOP men aren’t against abortion. They’re against women having the power to terminate pregnancies.

    They aren’t against big government, they gleefully pass bills that would limit freedom that the government would have to enforce. They are just against anyone getting help or privilege other than them. Most GOP Southerns were against Obamacare because it was a government health care system, yet most GOP Southerns are old and on Medicare. And they consistently vote to protect Medicare.

    I guess this article is kind of a wake up call. That some people are just always going to be assholes and if they are going to go down they are going to take you with them.

  13. March 6, 2014 at 5:56 pm

    Bigotry is the disease of ignorance, of morbid minds. – Thomas Jefferson

    just saying…

    • Butt Cheeks
      March 6, 2014 at 6:03 pm

      I think you have to sperate the wheat from the chaff in this article. I think calling the sub-humans was going to far, but he has a point about them not people able to do basic human things like self preservation. The political equivocation of self preservation is advocating for your own best self interest. Some who fails to do that is in an ethical way is considered mentally ill. Maybe a better term other than sub-human would be mentally ill.

  14. Claude
    March 7, 2014 at 1:24 am

    An Indian guy took a girl from me easily once- he was very charismatic and thus it was hard to hate him. It can be done.

    I don’t want to patronize, though. I know it’s tough, society is openly racist against Asian men unlike any other group, and it does look bleak.

    But you know, a lot of that is because the whole pc culture is white women- driven. Hell even these “white nationalists” are huge pussy-beggars, actually concerned if some random WhoWar decides to get drilled by a black guy. White women hate Asian men for the most part, just like they hate a lot of high I.Q. White men and non- superstar black men.

    I guess what I’m trying to say is whole I can’t ” feel your pain,” I empathize. Doesn’t mean much, but I am pulling for Asian beta males to start calling their fair share of shots.

  15. Claude
    March 7, 2014 at 1:31 am

    In a native of Mississippi- and not a member of any kind of elite. My roots are about as trashy as possible.

    But I will say this: everyone ( not necessarily AD) SEVERELY underestimates the power of religion there. Sure fat chicks give hand jobs in the back of Taco Bells, doesn’t mean they aren’t religious psychos. Plenty of gay handjobs are tossed around in Saudi Arabia from what I gather, which is a part very similar to Mississippi in terms of how it’s structured ( ignorant masses, irreverent but secretive elite, repressive climate, gutter culture).

    The Calvinist- based fundamentalist religion there keeps people completely mentally passive. Mississippians don’t accept ” personal responsibility” and “Individual liberty” like some libertarian in Vermont. There is a rigid caste system subconsciously recognized as God- ordained. The moral/ religious establishment demands it.

    Hence my issue trying to “save” the betas from my old life. It was God who demanded their betatude. I had zero success. Thank god I’ve moved.

    And that is exactly why I see most of those people as subhuman. Outsourcing critical thinking and morality to shysters interpreting bronze age myths is not the mark of a rational person.

  16. ClaudeCleburne
    March 7, 2014 at 8:13 am

    But that’s prevalent for damn near everyone but a select few. You yourself acknowledge religions both spiritual and secular. It just seems a little mean- spirited to select one group for a proposed pogrom. It’s unrealistic, anyway. As bad as it is dealing with prole whites, they serve economic functions.

  17. doclove
    March 7, 2014 at 6:05 pm

    Advocatus Diaboli,
    So you noticed that White Southerner Americans vote anywhere between 80-90% Republican. You say that the Republicans screw them over despite their votes. Can not the same be said of the Black Americans who vote 90-97% Democrat.

    For all their shortcomings, the Democrats have done more for Blacks than Republicans have done for working class whites.

    I DARE YOU TO WRITE ABOUT AFRICAN AMERICAN VOTING PATTERNS. DO THE SAME WITH ASIANS,JEWS AND LATINOS. Have you not noticed that the White Southerner Americans voted Bobby Jindal, your Southern Asian racial and perhaps ethnic Asian Indian kinsman to be Governor of Louisiana? Have you not also noticed that White Southerners voted for another one of your racial and ethnic kinswomen, Nikki Haley, to be Governor of South Carolina and that one White Southerner American married and sired children with her? Where else in the USA did this happen? Oh, you mean it didn’t except in two deep Southern States of the USA. I DARE YOU TO RESPOND!!! Do you have any thoughts? Comments? I mean worthy ones of really having. YOU ARE SUCH AN ATTENTION WHORE EVEN IF IT IS FOR NEGATIVE ATTENTION, AREN’T YOU?

    Both Jindal and Hailey are “gungadins”.

    • doclove
      March 8, 2014 at 1:37 pm

      Ha! Ha! Ha! II and other rationale people would say that the Democrats have screwed over the Blacks more than the Republicans have done to the Whites. Democrats have ruined the black family through welfare. Over 70% bastards with a higher than 60% divorce rate while the American average is 50%. While 85% of black highschool graduates were functionally literate in World War 2, now only 65% of blacks are. As the poem alludes, Jindal and Haley are better humans than you. Why? One reason is you an delusional LIEberal who has no clue as to how terrible your economic and political ideas are.

  18. Yusef
    March 16, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    EvilOne :
    I have no idea what to say to your mollifications.
    How often do you see a 5’0 – 5’4 guy with a GENUINELY GOOD LOOKING GIRL?
    How often do you see such a man with a girl who is TALLER than him?
    And how often do see such a man with a genuine smile on his face?
    And this talk about fights – are you crazy? You expect me to have a death wish?
    Im betting, very rarely Probability fallacy if you think once in a blue moon counts..
    Well, they are not 1 in 200 males anymore. When I was in Uni, it was closer to 1 in 12 to 1 in 15.
    Thats what happens when the races are mixed. Politically correct BS about race being about skin color be damned. Its not 1960 anymore.

    Resignation and defeatism are the easy route. What I’m suggesting to you is difficult. You are correct about these things being rare, but wrong about why. Most people take the easy route even though the difficult route is more rewarding. I would only agree with you if the difficult route was so difficult it was impossible.

    My friend, a 5’0-5’4 Indian guy from near New Dehli was always with a genuinely good looking girl. What made this possible for him? For one, his English. It was superb. Not only technically, with excellent grammar, pronunciation, and vocabulary, but with his adroit understanding of idioms, of slang, of what was hip and appealing to American women. He wore attractive clothes… And so on.

    Anyway, I doubt it was easy. Probably the hardest part, though, was to recognize what he needed to do and then doing it. I see plenty of intelligent and capable Indians with good-enough looks who just do not get it, and I don’t sympathize.

    I’m not going to talk about fighting– but realize every advantage is also a disadvantage and everyone has weaknesses which are exploitable.

    • joesantus
      March 16, 2014 at 5:47 pm

      Yusef, I agree with you in theory…through my 58 years as an average-looking, 5’8″, lower class, US whitey, I have seen the exceptions you’re describing happen.

      I think the point is, though, that the 5’0″-5’4″ Indian is indeed forced to “get it”; he cannot simply be, more-or-less, “himself”. He must invest extreme effort and measures and undertake radical personal changes (of which you gave example) in order to have even a chance with women whom the “6’2s” get (relatively) easily and by simply being their 6’2″ selves. The 6’2′ needs to recognize comparatively nothing, to learn no new language, not to determine what is hip and appealing, nor to do anything exceptional for who he already is. (And, imagine if in reaction to a surge of 5’4’s working hard to compensate, the 6’2″ DOES start applying as much effort and change to make himself even more appealing!)

      Obviously, resignation nor defeatism won’t get a man anywhere.

      However, the counterpoint is that, given the inequities of genetics and epigenetics (and probably childhood environments, including societies and cultures); and the comparatively tremendous investment of attention, time, and effort required for a naturally-less desirable male to attempt to equalize the field; it doesn’t seem unreasonable to me for a less-desirable guy to FEEL bitter and defeated, especially if the statistics say his chance of success will always be small.

      It’s not women’s fault, ultimately: rather, it’s nature’s fault, since nature is ultimately responsible for the genetic varieties as well as for why women find certain characteristics more attractive and attractive at all. So, blaming women is like blaming a rabid animal for being rabidly insane; the animal’s unfriendly behavior is a product of the disease. But, knowing “why” probably won’t stop me from feeling bitter if my long-time favorite pet dog contracts rabies and bites me!

      • EvilOne
        March 17, 2014 at 3:04 am

        You do make one mistake in reasoning here which separates a 5’8ish guy from a 5’2ish guy – male respect – which in turn indirectly affects female access as well.

    • EvilOne
      March 17, 2014 at 2:35 am

      As I said, probability fallacy. You haven’t said anything new, just tried to justify yourself.

  19. joesantus
    March 17, 2014 at 10:01 am

    EvilOne :
    You do make one mistake in reasoning here which separates a 5’8ish guy from a 5’2ish guy – male respect – which in turn indirectly affects female access as well.</

    I agree with you about the respect-appeal connection, Evil One. The male respect/female appeal element wasn’t a point of reasoning of which I’m unaware, but one which didn’t seem directly pertinent to expressing my belief that 5’0″-5’4″s are unfairly required to work extremely hard simply to have a chance and that, therefore, the 5’4″-or-shorters do have reason to feel defeated and bitter.

    I acknowledge, by experience and by observation, that as a 5’8″ whitey I have not had to work as hard as a guy 5’4″-or-shorter in order to compete with the 6’0′-or-tallers. I know that although I’ve never had it as easy as the 6’0″-or-tallers, I have had it much easier than 5’4″-or-shorters. The closer a male is to that most-desirable/most appealing range, the less extra effort he has to expend to compensate.

    • EvilOne
      March 17, 2014 at 12:36 pm

      Being 5’2 is a real bind because your dating pool is mostly limited to girls taller than you. Ive resigned myself to considering this against instinct. Or against social dynamics. Whatever.

      Add to that the very real danger of being pummelled to death and just plain being ignored by other males (social instincts stunted).

      I’d kill to be an unattractive 5’8 guy who doesn’t get any tail – simply for the male on male interaction benefits.

      Its ironic, because, as I mentioned I have the classic ‘bad boy biker’ face and am somewhat muscular so Ive had some interest for relatively good looking taller fit white chicks (the gold standard). When I blurted this out once in a semi public place, a ~5’10 chubby/bulky chinese acquaintance of mine just couldn’t take it and jumped up and walked away with a contorted face.

      He was simply unaware of the male – male connection, to him it being as natural and expected as air and I doubt hes ever feared for his life much or felt cowed around other males – so all he saw was a guy who had turned down attractive girls.

  1. April 3, 2014 at 5:01 pm
  2. April 21, 2014 at 12:15 am

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