Home > Critical Thinking, Current Affairs, Dystopia, Musings, Philosophy sans Sophistry, Reason, Secular Religions, Skepticism > Why Trump’s Muslim Ban is a Self-Destructive Idea: 30 Jan, 2017

Why Trump’s Muslim Ban is a Self-Destructive Idea: 30 Jan, 2017

Note- While this post develops on ideas discussed in my previous post, it is best kept separate from that series- largely because this post is heavily focused on one particular issue rather than a pattern or trend. It is however likely that some observations made here will be generically valid for later parts of that series.

I am going to start this post by first talking about its specific focus- namely Trump’s recent executive order “temporarily” banning entry into USA of people travelling from 7 largely Muslim countries. It should be noted that order, as it is being implemented, also prevents the entry of permanent legal residents and others travelling on valid visas from those countries- in spite of what Trump’s cronies are claiming. I also do not have to tell you that this order has resulted in a lot of public opposition, including but not limited to, large public demonstrations at various major airports all over USA.

The intense public reaction against this executive order is, in my opinion, perhaps the smallest problem created by this stupid action. Even the constitutional and legal problems associated with that executive order are at best medium-sized problems. The largest and most dangerous of the many problems associated with implementing such a stupid plan are linked to its long-term secondary and tertiary effects. Let me explain..

1] Irrespective of what Trump and his sycophants say, it is clear that his “temporary” ban on entry by people from 7 predominantly Muslim countries is a Muslim ban. Only a retard would believe that this ban is not the first step in a futile last-ditch attempt by white nativists to hang onto their make-believe position in a world that has irreversibly changed, much to their disadvantage. Trump’s other plan to deport tens of millions of “illegal Mexicans” is just another part of his futile attempt to raise the dead.. also known as making USA white again.

So why does this matter? Well.. consider the demographic profile of USA. Do you really think that pissing off every non-white person and, perhaps, half the whites in USA is a good strategy? The pivot point of real power has already irreversibly shifted away from the types of people who enthusiastically voted for Trump (as opposed to those who did because he was not HRC). To make a long story short, such actions make any future peaceful co-existence between his hard-core supporters and everyone far less likely- to the detriment of the former.

2] Trying to implement policies which deviate from established norms, even if they enjoy popular support, is problematic as the best of times. Trying to force irrational and regressive policies when half the country sees that person as proto-Hitler or proto-Mussolini does not help Trump’s public image- to put it mildly. It should be noted that even disastrous and disliked presidents like Bush43 and Nixon37 were never widely seen as illegitimate- especially at the beginning of their presidency. At some point in their first term, both of these now detested ex-presidents enjoyed popularity ratings as high as 80-90% .

There is, therefore, no comparable example in living history of an american president who has such low popularity AND was widely perceived to be illegitimate. Once you add the fact that he seems to be implementing policies which people associate with totalitarian regimes- it is fair to say that he is willingly (or accidentally) marking himself out as proto-Hitler or proto-Mussolini, at least in the public imagination. I would not be surprised if people start treating him as a totalitarian leader who was not legitimately elected- especially if his economic policies fail to deliver increased incomes for working-class people within the next 2 years.

3] The biggest difference between a conflict among two groups within a nation and one between two nations is that the former type has one final arbiter, while the later has none. Consequently, conflicts between nations (or nation sized entities) can go on for as long as either nation (or entity) involved in it can afford to continue. Even worse, as examples such as the recent failed occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan by USA show, intense but diffuse conflicts can go on for far longer than modern nation states can afford to sustain them.

But what does any of this to do with Trump’s Muslim ban? Well.. a lot. His actions, you see, have jump-started a new and counterproductive phase in a conflict which has been simmering for some time. While the current ban affects only 7 Muslim countries, you can bet that the vast majority of Muslims throughout the world (even those who are otherwise nor religious) have been mentally mobilized against the USA, Trump and his loyal followers. More importantly, even those who were Muslims in name only now have no reason to play nice with USA. The same goes for leaders of Muslim countries whose rulers and leaders used to be favorably disposed towards USA.

4] And this brings us to the next long-term effect of this particular act of stupidity. The ability of USA to operate in many parts of the Middle-East and North-Africa (and similar places) depends on it being able to trade financial and other favors with the local ruling class. These is a reason why the kids of the elite from many of these countries study in well-known american universities and buy expensive real estate in USA. For most of post-WW2 history, the USA has managed to keep the promises made to the local elites of those countries.

But what happens if the USA acts in a manner that makes any such promises deeply suspect? Why would the local elites of those smaller countries keep playing with an entity that is already hated in their realms? Would you keep on going to work if you were not getting paid? Would you work for somebody whose actions have demonstrated that they intend to not pay you? What makes you think that the local elite in those countries would keep on playing nice with USA if they believed USA wanted to stiff them later?

5] But perhaps the biggest and most problematic long-term effects of Trump’s Muslim ban and his immigration and trade “policies” are on the international credibility of USA. Let me quickly explain that point in a bit more detail. Relationships between nations, whether they are of a commercial or military nature, are based on the credibility of involved parties. The credibility of a nation is largely dependent on how other nations see it based on their past experiences and signs of policy continuity- economic and military. That is why, for example, the west makes pokes fun at North Korea but does not have the balls to invade it.

Trump’s Muslim ban in combination with his stated beliefs about many others topics such as immigration, trade and race are a significant change from official american positions on those issues for many decades. While that might seem like a good thing to many of his mediocre racist.. I mean “patriotic” supporters, it makes it very hard for other countries to believe in the willingness of USA to honor ANY agreement or treaty they sign from now on. To be fair, the USA has often unilaterally broken more than a few agreements and treaties in the past. However, today it simply does not have its previous size and power differential vis-a-vis the rest of the world.

To summarize, Trump’s Muslim ban is a self-destructive idea because it opens the door to large systemic problems in the future without solving the problem it was intended to address.

What do you think? Comments?

  1. Observer
    January 30, 2017 at 10:23 pm

    Dear AD,

    I wonder what you think is the Trump administration’s end game with this ban (and likely future anti-immigrant/anti-Muslim moves)? I have some thoughts and was wondering if you perceive the trajectory similarly or not. I am perhaps ascribing too much foresight to the political masters (I read and largely agreed with your post on Orwell’s/Huxley’s blind spot as to the supposed distinguished abilities of the elite).


    Once event chains develop a life of their own, their preferred end game will become irrelevant.

    I don’t think Trump himself actually cares one lick about ideological concerns about ‘Islam’s corrosive influence on Western civilization’ or whatever other conspiracy useful idiots on the CONservative side believe. He simply doesn’t have the mental capacity to understand the convoluted and contradictory abstract arguments those ideologues put forth. And it’s clear how his stated position can change from one moment to the next without any clear logic or reflection supporting it.


    Yep.

    My guess it is Bannon foremost who is persuading him to sign this order. But to what end?


    The same question could be asked about Goebbels.

    Firstly, it will help guarantee the Trump administration the same voting bloc of angry white people who are in denial of America’s fate and the loss of their ‘great’ status in the face of the inevitable contradictions of global capitalism. The ban also vicariously fulfills their longing to express their racism. And even though the approval rating for Trump may be low, voter turnout is low as well. If the bloc of whites who yearn for the good old days can be counted on to show up to vote and symbolically reclaim their lost position, then Trump will at least have a stable tally for the next election.

    Assuming there is a functional country left by election day. Also factor in the accelerated decline in numbers of his voters due to further reduction in their life expectancy.

    Secondly, the ban will aggravate tensions in the Muslim world towards the United States. This is by design. For this ban preempts another terrorist attack on the United States, which is bound to happen given the US’s foreign policy and involvement in Arabic countries. Trump and the Republicans can then conveniently chastise the Democrats for their ‘anti-American’ coddling of Islam, or something as politically expedient that will rile the masses. Thus, Trump will gain more political points.

    That is not necessary.. https://dissention.wordpress.com/2011/09/10/the-true-cost-of-overreaction-hubris-and-ego/

    Once the previous happens, rationalizing another interminable war in a new country a la Iraq, Afghanistan, will be straightforward, and it is unlikely the Democrats will be able to or have the will stop it (again, see Iraq and Afghanistan, and now more contemporary conflicts in Syria, Libya, Yemen).


    They lack the financial wherewithal to fight another war like Iraq 2.0- largely because the defense industrial complex in USA is not cost effective.

    As it is clear that protracted war has become the new reliable industry for profit (private military contracting, arms production/shipment, and the potential resources in the war theater), the material and financial motive behind all of this is apparent. If the next war can be justified with reference to ‘evil Islam’, then it could last forever. A steady cash cow and scaffold for political power.

    However, one of the lingering questions I have is whether Bannon and ideologically similar on the surface other members of the bourgeoisie really believe their ‘clash of civilizations’ and Islam=evil memes, or whether it is a convenient ruse. This is what puzzles me. Of course, the ordinary people and some intellectuals might actually believe it, but that is to be expected.


    Wanting to is not the same as being able to. USA in 2017 is a shadow of what it appeared to be in 2003.

    Thinking back to GW Jr, did Bush, Cheney, Powell, etc. REALLY think Iran, Iraq, North Korea, were truly an ‘axis of evil’? The name is so asinine given the political context and obviously chosen to elicit an emotional reaction from the masses and provide a convenient platform for the useful idiots (hawkish intellectuals/commentators) that it belies its legitimacy. Why haven’t we heard of this nefarious axis much since then? Of course, it was just a convenient rhetorical construct and smokescreen, and not reality.


    But that is not new, either for USA or other countries.

    So with Bannon and the white supremacist alt-right, do the elite (as in, highest members of the hierarchy, however informal), really believe all this posturing about ‘Islam Vs The West’, the Final Battle?

    Although Bannon seems the most fanatic out of all of them, I don’t think he really does, deep down.

    The problem I see critics making when criticizing Bannon and Trump for their short-sightedness, is that they do not see that could be the exact intention of this administration. USA as a whole might suffer decreasing standards and greater threats due to outwardly hawkish and nationalist positions, but a group of the elite will happily continue to profit and expand. Think back to Blackwater, Halliburton, Lockheed Martin. Even in the financial crisis of 2008 onward, where America as a whole declined, the financial sector bourgeoisie profited handsomely.


    That is the plan.. it just happens to be the case that the system no longer has enough give to pull off that crap.

    This similarly applies to Betsy DeVos in the current cabinet and her pushing for charter schools. Will the overall quality of education in America be even lower than the low it already it is, leading to America’s further slide down in science, jobs, etc? Of course. But of what concern is that to DeVos if her goal is accomplished?


    See another one of my older posts.. https://dissention.wordpress.com/2012/05/11/people-dont-accumulate-money-beyond-usability-for-rational-reasons/

    Being a right wing politician and ideologue is quite profitable, when it comes down to it. Look at the expose of the Daily Shoah’s host/founder (Mike Peinovich) for being a Jew. The man was literally a Jew, the alt-right’s sworn enemy, and he took hundreds of thousands members of the alt-right for a ride as listeners, donors, purchasers of merchandise, right under their nose. You have a group of gullible followers who prefer emotionally rousing rhetoric and self-congratulatory gibberish that anything will do really, as long as you hit the right buttons (white is right, America was great and will be again once we kick out the darkskins and Jews who are holding us back, we need to stop being ‘cucks’ as our country is being taken over, etc.).


    I was greatly amused by that revelation..

    I see Bannon in the same mold. Like all good snake-oil salesman, he’s found a slightly new angle to reel out the same old promises. Otherwise, Trump would just be another Republican, and he’ll lose some of his most fervent support.


    Bannon is closer to Goebbels.

    Of course, the one thing that binds them, other than the fundamental con-man nature their position requires, is that they cannot realize or admit is that capitalism and its intrinsic parasitic nature is finally reaching its end. Thus the desperate search for new reliable markets to collect the surplus from, and increasingly incoherent ideologies to explain away the economic reality.


    I have been saying that for some time now. Moreover, I have been pretty accurate about the sequence of the system falling apart.

    You can read some more about Bannon at this link: http://crookedtimber.org/2017/01/11/the-political-thought-of-stephen-k-bannon/ I am not associated with that blog in any way.


    I have seen that one and similar posts. They give him a bit too much credit.

  2. Lab Guy
    January 31, 2017 at 5:35 am

    Hey idiots out there. It is not a ban. It was the same seven countries the Kenyan Muslim Gay Mulatto restricted sometime ago under his junta. As a US citizen, I’m for heavily restricting immigration to the US right now from a number of countries that are third world in nature. Other countries restrict immigration and don’t the same flack for some reason. Why is that?

    AD likes to disparage whites on his blog but won’t move to a black run shit hole country in Africa, but that’s par for the course of racist European like himself. He would fit right in with the shitty white libtards that need to be physically removed from society here in the US.

  3. Lab Guy
    January 31, 2017 at 7:05 am

    The president has quiet a bit of leeway on this immigration issue. Funny that the libtards like finding this ‘Constitution’ thing when it benefits them but can’t seem to find it when they pass laws and executive orders disparaging the 2nd Amendment.

    I have never been a fan of establishment liberal hypocrisy about the 2nd amendment.

    Keep in mind that countries like Mexico also have some harsh penalties for those who immigrate there, become citizens, and protest the government for example. These leftist trash are lucky the US tolerates their asses. You are welcome!

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182

    That has nothing to do with tolerance. It is about making higher profits through cheaper labor.

    • Lab Guy
      February 1, 2017 at 6:31 pm

      That’s certainly good to know about you in regards to the 2nd Amendment. Yes, cheap labor is the issue. But I hate when the US is disparaged (imperfect though we are to) but no one points out the bad in these other countries.

      You haven’t read much of my blog.. have you?

  4. Not Born This Morning
    January 31, 2017 at 5:17 pm

    History reveals that “Democracy” (which is fundamentally just another communistic ideology selling false hope to cowards and beggars) usually morphs into “mob rule” one way or another. This “mob rule” condition never endures because it is unstable to the extent that too many cannot tolerate the insecurity of it. Most are followers or cowards and cannot function without someone or something to follow. Mob rule always leads to mass murder, torture, rape and ultimately the rebirth of new “order”. This country was most certainly NOT founded upon the principals of “Judea Christian values”. Those false fantasies are idealistic luxuries temporarily afforded by the conquerors, invaders, and marauding warriors who came here prior to the American selling of those ideologies. They came to a wild continent inhabited by stone age people and they hacked out a “civilization” against what most would consider impossible odds. They committed genocide against the aboriginal people who once inhabited this place. Their actions, those actions, were literally really what created the “foundation” of this country. They did not come here to be “welcomed into the arms of prosperity”. They came to rape, conquer and pillage the natural resources here, and that is what they did. They raped and pillaged human resources from other continents, kidnapped and enslaved them; they, including some of the “founding fathers”. Don’t be fooled by any false mirage of reward for humility, democratic cooperation, and mutual respect. Those are merely frauds to conscript you into servitude. The documents (Declaration of independence, constitution, bill of rights) were written long after infrastructure was established. Those documents are just that and nothing more, just words, which would not have been possible without significant determinant action prior to their writing. It is very important to comprehend that action was necessary prior to the Declaration and that the Declaration itself is merely words that would have been utter nonsense unless significant action (action not words) had occurred prior. People who relocate expecting their new location to provide for them, or who dream of a life supported by the community are too cowardly to support themselves. Those who cannot prosper in a prosperous society certainly cannot proper in a failing one. And, they never make good warriors. These are some reasons why a minority with enough fortitude and initiative can gain power over indolent masses (no matter how much the masses are whining and complaining, they want to be led) through chicanery, demagoguery, intimidation and ultimately force. Review the history of NAZI Germany. It may be very dangerous and false hope to underestimate the “success” of Trump et al.

  5. February 1, 2017 at 4:24 pm

    Over the years, AD, you have been one of the few online personalities to maintain an almost anhedonic detachment towards events, no matter what happened.
    It shows how extraordinary these times are that I have seen something really get under your skin for the first time ever.

    Actually I am kinda happy that he is finally accelerating the demise of the status quo. USA in 2017 is approximately = USSR in 1987

    I actually see Trump as baldfaced acceptance that white people have gone into decline and are limited in what they can do, aren’t “exceptional,” can’t unilaterally be the world’s police and require bread, butter, and secure territory to exist like any other tribe on earth.
    He actually represents whites just behaving as every other people on earth behave and abandoning the uniquely idealistic role they’ve tried to play.

    That would have been possible if the USA had not gotten into costly entanglements throughout the world. Now they cannot separate themselves from that crap without also destroying themselves.

    Like many white Americans I was raised and educated on values of diversity etc, but have been forced to reject them over the years when every other group of people backs each other up and only hires and promotes their own. All this is, is responding in kind out of basic self-preservation.
    I have no special dislike towards other peoples nor do I really identify with other whites, but I know well that other tribes identify me with a people they hate, fear, and envy whether I like it or not.

    I have always believed that people who believe they are inherently special should not complain when reality show them to be impostors.

    Opposition to Trump has been such, that any actions of appeasement he might have taken would not only not have worked but would have actually encouraged them. The only course that makes sense for him really is to incense his opponents to the maximum while earning the undying loyalty of his base.

    For him and his coterie.. yes. For the rest.. it won’t end well.

    Regrettably, this may lead to considerable mayhem and violence, but when societies have a static or shrinking pie, human monkeys start to play the great game of musical chairs in earnest, some losing out each round. And so we play, hoping to still have a scarce chair when the game is over. It is nothing at all unusual in the general course of history. It was the status quo, actually, until the strange abundance brought about by the industrial revolution. Now societies worldwide are at saturation again, it’s back to normal.


    There never was a normal or an equilibrium. Possibilities are only tempered by their feasibility.

  6. You can't come here
    February 1, 2017 at 9:41 pm

    Israel and Switzerland both have very restrictive immigration and visitation policies. The governments and the people want them. We simply don’t see notable terrorist activity in Switzerland. If Israel let the crazies in, we’d never hear the end of it from the jewish lobby because we already know what those muslims want to do to Israel. These nuts already flew airplanes into the world trade center. When will some people ever learn?

    There is nothing crazy or totalarian about standards. Once too many muslims come here they’ll start acting in a bloc fashion, such as what’s going on in France. Sharia law is real and it’s unacceptable. I will not allow my daughter to bare witness to it.

    We can’t even put together a functioning healthcare system in this country. Why should we put more newly arrived people onto Medicare? Insane.

    • webej
      February 2, 2017 at 4:59 pm

      You mean “bear witness”. Make sure your daughter doesn’t “bare” period.

  7. Outside of Ivory-Tower
    February 2, 2017 at 1:19 pm

    A a German, I am inviting you to visit Germany and visit communal leaders, who have to lead broke cities which now have thousands of young Muslim men aka asylum-seekers, of whom 90% won’t be able find educational, economical and romantic success. 800000 cases of ticking bombs – thanks to Dr. A. Merkel.

    Feel free to look up the ten-thousands cases of rapes, harrassment, fights allover Europe.

    This is in addition to the hundred-thousands of 3rd gen Muslims, who despite being born in Europe, couldn’t make it and turn to extremism and blow up innocents.

    You can also go to West Somalia, the US state formerly known as Minesota.

    While I am no fan of religions (especially that religion), I am not stupid enough to ignore that racism underlies any ban based on religious beliefs or country of origin. You are acting as if all people of white descent in Germany are somehow intrinsically good or deserving.

    Don’t give me the crap about discrimination & structural racism!

    Migrants from the former SU, India and Confucian societies have no trouble of achieving success, e.g. 80% the children of Vietnamese guest-labourers in Eastern Germany, Poland, Czech Rep graduate with a college-level degree. The native-German children only achieve 50% college-level education.

    We Westerners can deal with criminal/littering/uneducated Latinos & Africans, but those two groups do not form extremist-groups with intention of blowing up the host societies.



    Perhaps you should read a bit about USA spend a lot of time and money supporting (directly and indirectly) Muslim fundamentalism in the middle-east from the early-1950s to the present day.

    The leadership in Muslim countries will soon see the emigration-valve to the West turned off and will be forced to implement real reforms & growth like the Chinese or Koreans. Or else their countries will tear themselves apart. For Libya, Yemen it’s already too late, I guess. Same will soon apply to the sub-Saharan countries.

    IMHO Trumps ban is more of foreign policy signal to the insane European governments’ Open-Borders-agenda.

    I have the feeling that soon a certain Wall-Street-Bankster will get caught in a traffic accident and after that the socalled activism against national-conservative governments in the West will run out of money very fast.

    The Antifa/Leftist movement, is an artificial project kept alive by billionaire’s largesse (in th US) and by tax-payer-financed Leftist parties’ foundations (in the EU). There is no protest movement against Trump.


    I am myself no fan of elitists and globalists.

    • P Ray
      February 3, 2017 at 12:57 pm

      Migrants from the former SU, India and Confucian societies have no trouble of achieving success, e.g. 80% the children of Vietnamese guest-labourers in Eastern Germany, Poland, Czech Rep graduate with a college-level degree. The native-German children only achieve 50% college-level education.

      Let me know how many of those male migrants are ALLOWED to interbreed with German Caucasian women. Men can’t breed with women that they are going to be killed for being interested in, through punishment from the majority population. Like the “legal” lynching of Asian, Black and Jewish people before.

      Otherwise all you are doing is forestalling the creation of future ethnic ghettoes, filled with men you consider only worthy of the status of drone (insect that doesn’t reproduce). When those men realise what’s up, they WILL rise up, and become the new “immigrant menace” that you currently label Muslim men as (note: why are the Western countries only allowing in the Chad Thundercock Muslims, at least when it comes to male immigrants? Is it a conspiracy to provoke people to elect “nationalist” and “racist” governments in the future, so that some big business can make big bucks?).

  8. Shiningtime
    February 13, 2017 at 8:42 pm

    I’m a black person so I always consider events from the perspective of how it affects black Americans. Trump’s ban while rooted in islamophobia is not detrimental to black community. Further, the people it affects aren’t known for their enthusiastic support of black issues.

    America has too many men. This is an obvious issue for anyone who knows where and how to look. There simply aren’t enough jobs to employ the men we already have. Now you want to inject tens of thousands of low skilled poorly educated people into the country each month? This is a problem.

    • P Ray
      February 13, 2017 at 8:48 pm

      The solution to too many men has usually been war.
      It’s good for the economy,
      and makes it easier for women to pick out who are the alphas (that the women would like to be in a harem with).

      Remember, the poor people, but especially the minority ones – and especially the minority ones people consider expendable – in the US, that would be male blacks … will be the ones sent to fight.

      This is a problem.

  1. February 3, 2017 at 10:44 pm

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