Home > Current Affairs, Dystopia, Economy, Musings, Philosophy sans Sophistry, Reason, Secular Religions, Skepticism > On the Difference in Outcomes for China and India in Post-1945 Era: 3

On the Difference in Outcomes for China and India in Post-1945 Era: 3

In the previous part of this series, I wrote about how post-1949 Chinese leadership put in a lot of effort to improve the conditions of its people, even if their motivations were not purely altrusitic. Then again, the same is true of every government which has every existed in human history and the present. In sharp contrast, the Indian leadershit has remained mired in their self-chosen role as darker white sahibs carrying the “white mans burden” and lording over an allegedly hopeless bunch of subhumans. One commentator in the previous post of this series made a comment to the effect that it sounded like how things work in south and central american countries- where an incompetent whiter elite (with the assistance of dying white countries) mismanage and lord over less whiter people, who they see as less than human. Yep.. that is about right.

In the previous post, I also wrote about how the Chinese leadership took a pragmatic approach to improving literacy through a variety of reforms and programs. They also built, and in some cases rebuilt, institutions and bureaucracies to function for them and their people. Sure.. they had to break a few hundred thousand eggs to achieve that- but you cannot deny that the results are quite impressive and functional. More importantly, these institutions now either do what they are meant to do, or do not interfere in what other institutions are doing. In other words, the Chinese leadership was able to build and maintain a unitary and coordinated governmental system with a pretty decent level of accountability. And all this within first three decades after 1949. So why were they able to achieve something which their Indian counterparts thought to be impossible.

Conventional explanations for this, usually put forth by allegedly “credentialed” white idiots, try to paint this as some sort of exception or aberration. However that is not the case, as some version of this had been previously implemented in Japan and the Koreas. For example, modernization of Japan starting in Meiji era and its rebuilding after WW2 was achieved by implementing a watered-down version of what China started doing after 1949. The same is true of South Korea after the early 1960s. You might have noticed that all these examples have something else common to them- other than being east-asian. Ready.. they were, or are, mostly single-party systems.. yes, even Japan. But didn’t India also have effectively have a single party system for first 2-3 decades after 1947? Yes, they did and the Congress party won most elections as the state and federal level for 2-3 decades after “independence”. So why did it work in east-Asia but not in India?

Which brings us to the part about accountability- for elected officials as well as bureaucrats. As I mentioned in previous parts of this series, almost every single Indian politician and elected official came from families who collaborated with the British colonizers of India. They had risen to their positions without facing any real challenge, struggle or conflict. Most had no real skills beyond regurgitating what they learned in British universities and they saw themselves as darker whites rather than Indians. As I said in previous part, they believed anything some white guy in an expensive suit would tell them. The Indian bureaucracy was no better and filled with sad excuses for human beings who enjoyed abusing and screwing over their own people by using rules and regulations written up for that purpose by their erstwhile colonial masters.

Long story short, both the political class and bureaucracy of India was made up of incompetent losers who saw themselves as lesser whites rather than Indians. And there is one more thing.. the bureaucracy and political system continued to exist as two independent and antagonistic centers of power. Contrast that to successful east-asian countries where the political leadership and bureaucracy are different faces of the same system. There is a good reason why I used the words such as unitary and coordinated to describe the Chinese system. But why does any of this matter? Also, does it matter that much? Well.. let me show you with a couple of examples.

Very few of you know that India was first Asian country to build its own supersonic combat aircraft. Ya.. India built the HF-24 Marut and successfully tested it in the early 1960s. While the team leader of the project was Kurt Tank, almost everybody else in the project was Indian and they went from nothing to flying prototypes in about 6 years. So what did the Indian political leadershit and bureaucracy do in response to this success? The sabotaged it in every way they could- from denying funding for better imported engines to crippling the organisation setup for developing indigenous engines. Even worse, they spent a lot of effort trying to make sure that all the knowledge and expertise gained through that project was lost. But why?

The “conventional” explanation for this behavior is that USSR offered them decent inexpensive combat aircraft. However that is not true since the USSR which made such aircraft in multiple thousands was not really bothered by this indigenous effort. Moreover, it filled a role distinct from the aircraft they supplied to India at that time. The real reasons have far more to do with the Indian psyche, especially those of its white-worshiping idiot politicians and bureaucrats. The thing is.. they could not believe that people of their skin color could make world-class products. To make matters worse, they had no ability to understand concepts such as iterative development and using the insight gained in one project to advance others. But most fatally, they believed in what white scammers told them about the nature of money.

Now contrast this to what China did during the same time period. After getting all the equipment from USSR to manufacture Mig-15s, 17, 19s etc they first kept cranking out replicas. While not the best combat aircraft of that era (mid 1960s), they were good enough. But far more importantly, they used that opportunity to train a shitload of engineers who would then go on to improve these aircraft and eventually build far better ones. They did this at a time when they were as poor as India and in politically worse shape. They also did the same with soviet diesel-electric submarines, infantry weapons, artillery etc. Did you notice that they never stopped these projects or disbanded their experienced teams regardless of domestic upheavals and other issues. Why not? And where did they get the money to do all these things?

The answer to first part of those questions is that they, unlike their Indian counterparts, were not incompetent white-worshipping idiots. The second and related answer is that they saw money in a very different way to their Indian and white counterparts. To make another long story short, they implemented a form of what we today call modern monetary theory, which is fancy way of saying that they printed money and allocated resources as necessary to get important things done while making sure that this new money did not enter the general circulation at levels large enough to cause runaway inflation and currency devaluation. So ya.. they pretty much printed money and rigged their system to deliver what they wanted, which they could do because of the size of their country. Their Indian equivalents chose to believe “credentialed” white eCONomists.

In the next part of this series, I will show you (with more examples) how a unitary and coordinated government policy gave China a huge advantage over India in other sectors.

What do you think? Comments?

  1. Conscience Constituent
    February 16, 2019 at 12:50 pm

    The british people are subhumans(irish and scottish too),they should be replaced by east european slavs,spanish,french,portugues,italians or germans.
    They only reason why they were able to do the industrial revolution and surpass the french and the dutch which were a lot more advanced, is that they had easy access to massive amounts of coal that’s it, but they have always been subhumans.
    These are just facts.

  2. P Ray
    February 16, 2019 at 7:38 pm

    The answer to first part of those questions is that they, unlike their Indian counterparts, were not incompetent white-worshipping idiots. The second and related answer is that they saw money in a very different way to their Indian and white counterparts. To make another long story short, they implemented a form of what we today call modern monetary theory, which is fancy way of saying that they printed money and allocated resources as necessary to get important things done while making sure that this new money did not enter the general circulation at levels large enough to cause runaway inflation and currency devaluation. So ya.. they pretty much printed money and rigged their system to deliver what they wanted, which they could do because of the size of their country. Their Indian equivalents chose to believe “credentialed” white eCONomists.

    Somewhat related: I read that many years back, Ferdinand Marcos of the Philippines did something similar – he printed every note 3 times – with the same serial number – effectively increasing the money supply by 3 times.

    He was only found out when a media personality revealed it in a show. So “keeping a heavy hand on the media” is a way to keep a currency stable.

    Of course, in the modern world, it seems that at least in White countries, many people are silent, accepting or protective of the idea that they “can print as much currency as we like, and other countries just have to accept it … while if they print as much currency as they like, we have a right to devalue their currency”. I suspect this is a modern-day international double-standard.

  3. Anon
    February 16, 2019 at 7:45 pm

    “One commentator in the previous post of this series made a comment to the effect that it sounded like how things work in south and central american countries- where an incompetent whiter elite (with the assistance of dying white countries) mismanage and lord over less whiter people, who they see as less than human. Yep.. that is about right.”

    South and Central American countries have life expectancies somewhere in the mid 70s. Most of the South American countries that buck the trend (Guyana, Trinidad, and Suriname) have significant Indian populations.

    Guyana went from having a life expectancy of 61 in 1965 to 66 in 2016, the lowest in South America.

    I can show you majority Asian or white countries with a low life expectancy too.. What is your point?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Guyana

    “The real reasons have far more to do with the Indian psyche, especially those of its white-worshiping idiot politicians and bureaucrats. The thing is.. they could not believe that people of their skin color could make world-class products.”

    Sounds like a classic crabs in a bucket mentality. I’ve noticed that Indians don’t like seeing other people in their company/team/department succeed because they don’t want to risk getting outshone, you really can’t work with a lot of them.

    They remind me of boomer whites but perhaps greedier and even less reliable, if such a thing were possible.

    Another thing to note is that Pakistan seems to have stagnated about as much as the rest of India, so this isn’t just a Hinduism issue.

  4. mind waves
    February 18, 2019 at 7:16 am

    I love this series, so incredibly informative.

  5. Anon
    February 18, 2019 at 9:29 am

    “So what did the Indian political leadershit and bureaucracy do in response to this success? The sabotaged it in every way they could- from denying funding for better imported engines to crippling the organisation setup for developing indigenous engines. Even worse, they spent a lot of effort trying to make sure that all the knowledge and expertise gained through that project was lost. But why?”

    I’m not too familiar with Indian politics but I’m guessing they kept their jobs and weren’t replaced by the more competent people who had worked on those projects. If you’re completely incompetent the last thing you want is someone else doing a good job at something and upstaging you.

    “I can show you majority Asian or white countries with a low life expectancy too..”

    There aren’t too many Asian or white countries with a life expectancy lower than India/Pakistan. The only Asian countries (ie countries in Asia) which score lower than Pakistan on life expectancy are Afghanistan and Laos.

    https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/life-expectancy-asia

    I did not know that countries like Ukraine and Belarus were non-white. LOL. Here is a suggestion, always look up data from multiple sources and consider their biases before you jump to conclusions. Then again, racism is one hell of a drug.

    But let me go a bit further. Why did you not consider Mauritius, Maldives, Sri Lanka? Let me guess.. because it does not further your beliefs. Also what accounts for the large variations you see within different parts of India? Did not further your beliefs?

    “What is your point?”

    I think you’re wrong. The Indo-Guyanese people I’ve come across in real life were not self-hating or white-worshipping at all. I think what you’re mistaking for self-hating racism is just an effective career climbing strategy of ass kissing the people you report to, and sidelining anyone else. This behavior is not really good for society, but it can further your career.

    I can think of dozens of whites with any set of characteristics you imply are specific to any non-white group of people.

    If the half dozen Indo-Guyanese people I’ve come across in the corporate world is any indication of how that country operates, I’m not surprised if their life expectancy is the lowest in South America.

    Why is it different in Mauritius, then?

    An example, two of these Indo-Guyanese (born in the west) I worked with last year made around 300k/year by their mid 20s, with just a BA in business. How did they do it?

    1) They sidelined technical solutions to problems that would obviate their need to lie to clients (this could steal their limelight) 2) They were servile to those in authority (of any background), and condescending towards those who reported to them. 3) They claimed competencies which they did not possess, (average intelligence/talent) when they took the helm of a project it would typically fail, but they were good at finding scapegoats.

    I have to admit this strategy is Very effective in a corporate setting, and I’ve learned quite a lot from them. Indians from India are just behind the curve and still think they “report” to white people.

    Are you under the impression that assholes and scam artist are somehow limited to non-white populations?

    The upper class in those Indian countries don’t feel the need to treat their people very well because they don’t fear or respect them. In that kind of environment you only need to satisfy the people you report to, hence the low life expectancy.

    There has been no real static upper class in India, outside of incestuous fields such as journalism and academia, for the last 3-4 decades.

  6. Anon
    February 18, 2019 at 4:01 pm

    “Are you under the impression that assholes and scam artist are somehow limited to non-white populations?”

    That’s a strawman if I’ve ever seen one! No where did I say they were limited to non-white or white populations.

    However, there are more scam artists in some societies than in others, because some societies don’t hold them accountable.

    ——–

    That analogy can be extended to its logical conclusion, you know.. kinda like Hitler did in the 1930s.

    “I did not know that countries like Ukraine and Belarus were non-white. LOL. Here is a suggestion, always look up data from multiple sources and consider their biases before you jump to conclusions. Then again, racism is one hell of a drug.
    But let me go a bit further. Why did you not consider Mauritius, Maldives, Sri Lanka? Let me guess.. because it does not further your beliefs. Also what accounts for the large variations you see within different parts of India? Did not further your beliefs?

    …..

    Why is it different in Mauritius, then? ”
    ——-

    Sure the Life expectancy in Mauritius is around 74.5 whereas in Belarus it’s around 73.8, pretty much the lowest in Europe. Not really setting a very high standard for yourself there! Also Belarus experienced the fall of the USSR which caused it’s life expectancy to crash by 5 years in the early 90s, and it’s already recovered.

    In contrast, Mauritius/Maldives/Sri Lanka have experienced a remarkable period of stability, and yet their life expectancies are less than most (In your words, “mismanaged”) South/Central American countries. Once again not really holding yourself to a high standard!

    You have not read much history, have you? Sri Lanka had a nasty civil war for over three decades. People in Maldives started becoming comfortably well off only after the late 1980s due to tourism. Mauritius was a colony until 1968 and had to develop industries based on its limited resources.

    Mauritius = 74.5, Sri Lanka = 75.3, Maldives =77.3 vs. Jamaica = 75, Costa Rica = 79.8, Mexico = 77, Chile = 79.5, Brazil = 75.5

    (I took the 2016 data from a google search. If you believe this data is biased, feel free to provide an alternative)

    ———

    “There has been no real static upper class in India, outside of incestuous fields such as journalism and academia, for the last 3-4 decades.”

    Even if this is true, which the data in the link below suggests otherwise, it doesn’t prove much. If the worst case scenario is that after 10-15 years of dishonest shenanigans you might be in a lower income bracket, that’s no incentive to stop doing what you’re doing.

    ———

    I can make up plausible sounding bullshit numbers. Also eCONomics is not a science.

    “Then again, racism is one hell of a drug.”

    Projection?

    https://dissention.wordpress.com/2012/07/19/an-intriguing-objection-to-euthanasia-for-old-white-people/

    —-

    I pay people with the same currency they chose to pay me with.

  7. Anon
    February 22, 2019 at 2:49 am

    “That analogy can be extended to its logical conclusion, you know.. kinda like Hitler did in the 1930s.”

    You know you’ve lost when you’ve started playing the Hitler card. Holding people accountable != Hitler.

    “You have not read much history, have you? Sri Lanka had a nasty civil war for over three decades. People in Maldives started becoming comfortably well off only after the late 1980s due to tourism. Mauritius was a colony until 1968 and had to develop industries based on its limited resources.”

    So what?

    Eastern Europe(WW2, USSR), Lebanon (colony, civil war, life expectancy 79-80), Spain (dictatorship), Vietnam, Mexico (druglords), South Korea (French colony, Korean war).

    Every single country/region I’ve mentioned has a life expectancy >76.

    “Also what accounts for the large variations you see within different parts of India? Did not further your beliefs?”

    A facile argument. A woman living in the capital of Belarus has a life expectancy of around 80.

    “I can make up plausible sounding bullshit numbers. Also eCONomics is not a science.”

    Ah, so all economists are a bunch of con artists except for those “Modern Money Theorists”. MMT works until it doesn’t.

    “I pay people with the same currency they chose to pay me with.”

    Then you’ll understand why I refuse to do business with most Indians, Pakistanis, and Guyanese people.

  8. GP
    February 22, 2019 at 5:44 am

    AD, I have a question. Do you think in India whether the civil bureaucracy or the police wields more power and influence and autonomy from political rule. Or do you see both as same.

    The ‘civil’ bureaucracy has, by far, more power than police in India. Ideally, they should have far less- especially the bureaucracy.

  9. moose
    February 23, 2019 at 12:07 am

    Modern Monetary Theory is the opioid of the mentally challenged

  10. lalit
    February 26, 2019 at 10:11 pm

    So What if the Chinese have science, Technology, a better quality of life, Global respect, law and order, better universities, etc etc.

    We Indians have Democracy
    Yeeehaa!

  1. May 2, 2019 at 10:57 pm

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