Home > Critical Thinking, Current Affairs, Dystopia, Musings, Philosophy sans Sophistry, Reason, Secular Religions, Skepticism > What is the Deal with Excessive Religiosity and Black Women in USA?

What is the Deal with Excessive Religiosity and Black Women in USA?

In an older post, I put forth the idea that Christianity is the second worst thing (after slavery and its sequelae, of course) to happen to black people in USA. In another one, I wrote that the quest of black people from previous generations for respectability (as defined by whites) hindered their efforts towards attaining real and enforceable legal equality. As most of you know, there has been no shortage of a small minority of blacks, from Bill Cosby to Barack Obama, who cynically used appeals to black respectability for ingratiating themselves with fearful and sexually insecure whites while simultaneously using their fame to elicit a high degree of support from black people, while also simultaneously crapping on them. A few months ago, I also wrote an article about the modern black misleadership class. And this brings me to a somewhat controversial topic.

What is the deal with black women, especially older ones, and an excessive belief in Christianity? More broadly, why are black women in USA obsessed with Church, Preachers, Christianity and worshiping a white Jesus? The most common explanation seems to be something along lines of.. “it is a black thing”. Really? If it was a “black thing”, why are levels of religiosity in black-majority Caribbean nations noticeably lower and qualitatively different from those seen in USA. While the church still, sadly, has an important social function in those countries- people in those countries (often materially poorer than USA) seem to be far less obsessed with being religious. The same is true in African countries, where beta men and not women are the most devotedly religious group. My point is that, black women in USA are somehow especially likely to indulge in excessive and self-destructive levels of religiosity. Buy why? What is in it for them?

What makes this even more peculiar is that these same women are also very likely to keep voting for politicians who ignore them after election and have done nothing (since the 1970s) to improve their quality of life. There are those who say that this behavior is somehow “pragmatic”. But is it? How was the passage of 1994 Crime Bill and 1996 Welfare Reform Bill by a democratic president (and senate?) a win for black people. And how exactly would republicans, who pretty much wrote both those bills along with democrats such as Joe Biden, have made it any worse if they were in control of all three legislative branches. Or look at what Barack Obama didn’t do after winning the presidency with record black voter turnout in 2008. His first term saw a number of deliberate decisions which screwed black homeowners way more than their white counterparts in aftermath of 2007 housing crash? Are you starting to see a pattern?

There is a strong correlation between poor self-image, white worship, lack of critical thinking and excessive religiosity among black women in USA. Now I am sure there are historical reasons for this most unfortunate constellation of self-destructive beliefs. Perhaps, black churches and other religious associations provide a sense of community and opportunities for social networking. But whichever way you look at it, the degree of personal interest displayed by american black women in Christianity is much higher than those displayed by black women in Caribbean countries and Africa. Clearly, something systemic is behind this long-standing pattern. I am also aware that the degree of religiosity among younger black women (born, say, after 1980) is noticeably lower than their predecessors. I am curious to hear about what my readers have to say about this topic.

What do you think? Comments?

  1. doldrom
    June 4, 2019 at 2:40 am

    Black African women are not a very homogenous demographic, and there plenty of examples of groups where the women are very religious/Christian; sometimes also the men. As for the diminishing religiosity among young black (American) women, isn’t that true for everybody else born after the eighties? I don’t think all your points of comparison are valid.

    Some more questions: Why is such a large portion of Koreans so Christian (Protestant), say compared to China or Japan? Japan is another interesting case. Christianity is a small minority, but it is more than 90% women! Women on the whole tend to be more religious everywhere — Why is that? Globally, 80% of the cases of religious persecution is against Christians. Why would that be?

    And some other questions. Why did blacks embrace Christianity at all? It wasn’t just foisted upon them, they actively and creatively assimilated and contextualized it, so there must be something in it for them. In Latin America as well, the indigenous and poor tend to be far and away the most religious. They must get something out of their devotion — it can’t simply be a matter of imposition … religious devotion varies considerably across individuals, and the more devout are not being coerced into being devout.

    As for a white Jesus, the entertainment industry seems the biggest promoter. There are plenty of examples where the madonna or Jesus are depicted as a locals, and there is little pressure against such representations. There’s no weighty reason why blacks shouldn’t portray Jesus as a black guy in pictures and Sunday School material.

    • lalit
      June 6, 2019 at 6:45 pm

      The only people that actually persecute Christians are muslims. Christians persecute everyone else where ever they can, having mastered the art of crying out in pain while striking vicious blows. This was just the beginning and it’s even worse now
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goa_Inquisition

      • doldrom
        June 7, 2019 at 4:04 am

        The 80% is what human rights groups reports — it’s not an interpretation like your comment.

      • hoipolloi
        June 8, 2019 at 5:05 am

        @ lalit: I like the expression, “having mastered the art of crying out in pain while striking vicious blows” and hope to use it.

        @doldrom: Christians complaining about persecution is fake. They go to far off places and interfere in local politics which they have nothing to do and get banned. Don’t go by the human right groups either. They are a Western biased organization who never find fault with Europe or U.S.

        We have all powerful faking victim hood now and then. In India, one hears Brahmins complaining how they are a discriminated minority. This is going off topic but certain things are worth pointing out. Cheers.

  2. Don
    June 4, 2019 at 3:20 am

    It is not only excessive religiosity that has this pattern. Indians are largely victorian prudes. While England where victorian prudes originated is no longer that way. I think it takes a while for a group to wise up and therefore, it can be said that the oppressed classes be it, old black women or Indians are slow in order to wise up. In fact, the oppressors may have wised up before the oppressed class. Such is the case with religiosity.

    • hoipolloi
      June 6, 2019 at 6:52 am

      @Don. You said it right. Even Indian educated and sundry think the present day prudery is Indian family values while it is patently Victorian. In many cases the originators move on but the natives and true believers cling to it like lice. The Aryans in the Indus valley civilization with the original Hindu religion, Vedas, and culture have moved on and embraced the latest cult from the Arabian desert. Whereas people from Madurai, South India cling to every incantation in those earlier rituals. They get their rewards.

  3. Conscience Constituent
    June 4, 2019 at 4:19 am

    Black women want that sweeet,sweet traditional housewife lifestyle and know that the best way to abtain that is to have the church pressure (black) men into that fulfilling that role for them.
    It’s very simple really.

    • P Ray
      June 4, 2019 at 5:19 am

      If the church doesn’t dare to question whether she has opened her legs to other guys besides her husband, then the church is part of the con game that protects Chads and Thots.

      • The Watcher
        June 4, 2019 at 7:26 am

        The black community is a matriarchy. The women dont desire to be in a subservient role to black men.

      • P Ray
        June 4, 2019 at 9:50 am

        The women dont desire to be in a subservient role to black men that they aren’t attracted to.

        Fixed that for you, no charge.

    • June 4, 2019 at 7:12 am

      Black women want that “sweet sweet traditional housewife lifestyle”?? LMAO – Are you kidding? That’s the funniest thing I’ve read this week!

      • Conscience Constituent
        June 4, 2019 at 1:25 pm

        Well usually that is the reason why white women go to church, so it’s not unreasonable to expect the same from black women.

  4. June 4, 2019 at 6:50 am

    A short way of putting it is that, unfortunately, elder blacks are married to the system that fucks over black life and especially black youth. Fortunately, younger people born after 1980 are way more realistic, rebellious and cynical to the older way of doing things and are increasingly walking away from worthless “traditions”.

    There are a handful of black CONservative males who are obsessed with religion and those particular self-hating middle class black idiots love throwing that bible at people’s foreheads, especially those who they fear and want to control (rebellious young people, bisexual women, promiscuous women, etc – Not long ago, a friend of mine came down on a self-righteous idiot jackass who chased a bisexual black woman down with fake bible scriptures, even though he personally despises black women and fornicates himself).

    Of course elders naturally have a disdain for the young generation, but still foolishly expect the same people they shit on to follow their “lead” and show them respect. Well, that too is fading away. For the older generation, religion (Christianity AND Islam) was a security blanket for them during the civil rights movement, but especially now, it is a handy crutch that helps people limp their way through life – to ignore “ugly” realities and hide behind blind faith. Black churches are en mass in black (and even Latin and SE Asian) communities, yet the neighborhoods look like war zones and don’t get me started on how black churches have probably swindled more money from impoverished blacks than the legal system.

    And the sexual hypocrisy (homophobia and anti-promiscuity messages) the black church perpetuates is very sickening – I could look up many articles now about some bisexual preacher in Atlanta, GA who knowingly infected their female “clients” with HIV, but will yet tell black men to “keep their dicks in their pants”, just so they can pull theirs out. And the fact that people in Africa were stupid enough to ALLOW Catholic popes to tell them to stop using condoms (starting in 1999) says more about their mentally ill “devout” followers.

    The ultimate betrayal is when older generations regurgitate that bullshit, then feed it onto the young generation who have to stand up to AND compete with people who don’t live by that nonsense. Even though they act as if they do, which is a front to “keep them in the dark and feed them plenty of bullshit” (mind control tactic).

    My grandmother used to force that religious bullshit on me, because it was her biggest dream to see me convert to that bullshit. She’s got the message now that it’s a lost cause and that I have zero interest. I won’t get started on her, but some people convert to religion as a way to clear up their resume before they expire, because they fear karma from the foul shit they’ve done back in their day.

  5. MikeCA
    June 4, 2019 at 10:04 am

    The Southern black churches were the first institutions to be organized and controlled by blacks. Churches are much more than just places of worship, they are social organizations. Both black and white women are more likely to attend church than men. I suspect the social part of the church experience is a lot of the reason. Also many women want to bring their children to church so they meet other children from religious families.

    Historically, black churches were places that blacks could go and socialize with other blacks without being threatened by whites. Black preachers became community leaders. Black churches became centers of political organizing for the black community.

    During the civil rights struggle black churches were bombed and burned because whites recognized there role in organizing the civil rights movement, but that was one of the things that helped turn the tide of public opinion against segregation.

  6. June 4, 2019 at 10:49 am

    Another thing I wanted to add… while I personally don’t blame so-called “white supremacy” for everything, there’s a reason why the two most freest people in America are white men and black women. Both have also had a history of sexual duplicity and being able to have their cake and eat it too. But that was until the 1960s. Tables turn and what goes around comes around.

    There’s also a reason why racist, fearful and sexually devoid whites insist on using black women as pawns to see to it that black males “stay in their place” (and feed them worthless fairy tales). This is the reason why so many bad ideas have been regurgitated by older AND middle-class blacks, which get passed onto young males raised by their mothers and grandmothers. As a result, many young men have no balls, no killer instinct and no sense of “trial and error” – especially when it comes to three important factors in life: Pussy, Money and War!

    I’m unsure if you know it or not, but Africa is matriarchal (not saying patriarchy is perfect in it’s entirety), to the degree to where they have this “queen mother” concept shit going on and Victorian Era where white women were put on pedestals was really a cheap imitation of that. A woman can never teach a boy how to be a man and while I’m all for women having their own personal rights over their own personal choices, when it comes to certain things, they need to stay in their lane and stop making everything all about them.

    • Al
      June 5, 2019 at 2:45 pm

      FACTS !!!!

  7. June 4, 2019 at 12:56 pm

    Well….

    1: History. You touched on tradition and how there is/was a social aspect of the church, this is very true ESP for older people. My understanding is that in the past, the church was really the only place we were allowed to congregate with some level of leeway. And ofc many people of prominence came from the church (MLK Jr etc etc). Now WHY that stuck? I’m GUESSING black people in Africa/Caribbean etc probably went back to older traditions that were more central to their identities throughout history (this after and during being invaded by whites), whereas in the US…. those traditions were pretty much forcefully removed successfully by whites and replaced with Christ/Bible

    2: …..rape (and general abuse). A LOOOOOOT of black women in the US get raped and that shit also goes back to slavery. IMO Jesus is the father/structure/rock etc they leaned on as kids, and collectively in church. This even way more so with older women. Nowadays, the rape still happens, but the pain is expressed in different ways because they CAN now. In the old days, black women and women in general were more restricted, and old habits die hard ie God/Bible was the “acceptable” way to release hardships. There is a lot of mental health issues in black america bc of slavery, but people try to say “it’s over now.” Shit compounds just like wealth compounds, unless fixed/lost etc.

    I kinda wonder how religious black people were in the north when we had our own shit/towns/businesses etc (I really think people were probably more secular, at least behind closed doors, for a brief period of time but I do not know.) Kinda wish I would have understood how fucked up a lot of white people are, I would have asked my Great Grandmom these questions had I known… Kinda sucks how all the old shit just… erases black people (films, etc). Shit pisses me off black people were involved MAJORLY in all events in this rotten country’s history and you’d never guess (plenty of black cowboys in fact that ideal image of “The Cowboy” I REALLY THINK mostly started off as freed black men learning from Mexican Caballeros (just a guess really), but all we see is bitch ass John Wayne)

    • P Ray
      June 4, 2019 at 1:18 pm

      Speaking about Martin Luther King:
      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7084749/TOM-LEONARD-probes-troubling-truth-shaming-Martin-Luther-King.html
      It’s the story America can’t bear to hear: As newly released FBI files report civil rights champion Martin Luther King sexually harassed dozens of women, TOM LEONARD probes the troubling truth behind the shaming of an icon
      FBI files say Martin Luther King had affairs with 40-45 women, claims biographer
      They add that he indulged in hotel room orgies and fathered illegitimate children
      Biographer David Garrow tried to publish his findings in the Washington Post and Atlantic magazine but was turned down by both
      By TOM LEONARD IN NEW YORK FOR THE DAILY MAIL
      PUBLISHED: 00:26 BST, 30 May 2019 | UPDATED: 14:40 BST, 30 May 2019

      e-mail
      1.8k
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      Listening through headsets into the bugged hotel suite next door, the small group of FBI agents couldn’t quite believe the sordid events that were unfolding.

      It was January 1964 and they were hearing what sounded like a pastor raping a female member of his congregation while his boss looked on, laughing and offering advice.

      The voices of both men were familiar.

      According to the agents sitting in the Willard Hotel, Washington DC, the rapist was an assistant to civil rights leader Martin Luther King. And his chortling companion was the anti-racism icon himself, the man whose ‘I Have A Dream’ speech, delivered a year earlier, continues to inspire activists to this day.

      Looks like somebody decided to have a (wet) dream.

      • Yusef
        June 4, 2019 at 3:14 pm

        They recycle this shit year after year after year.

        You know the FBI hounded King, did what they could to destroy him and his reputation, and FINALLY the FBI assassinated him, as also Malcolm.

        J. Edgar Hoover hated MLK. How come the hate tapes of J. Edgar Ghoulver don’t periodically resurface year after year after year?

  8. Yusef
    June 4, 2019 at 3:07 pm

    “More broadly, why are black women in USA obsessed with Church, Preachers, Christianity and worshiping a white Jesus?”

    Have you ever been to a black church service?

    It may not be what you think it’s going to be.

    It’s actually a pretty happening thing and I can see why it appeals to some people.

    I also doubt Jesus was white. Nothing requires anyone to depict Jesus as white or worship him as a white man. I think the idea is he isn’t even worshipped as a man. A God-man, maybe, but that’s not a man.

    • Al
      June 5, 2019 at 2:47 pm

      Women in general are more social and more religious. The idea that an all powerful Alpha looks over them is biological in its basis no ??

      • Yusef
        June 5, 2019 at 3:53 pm

        A biological basis for religiosity in general is one possible explanation, but an explanation for the greater religiosity of women than men would still be needed, assuming women are indeed more religious than men. In the primal horde, the powerful Alpha was looking over both the women and the younger, less powerful males. (Assuming we’re thinking of the same things here, and my experience with the internet is, likely we’re not.)

        One thing making me uncomfortable with this is that we are taking it for granted women are more religious than men, always have been– everywhere, at all times. This isn’t so clearly true as seems to be accepted. It wasn’t even true in the Americas prior to roughly the end of the eighteenth century.

        Prior to that, in the NE of America, the church and state were not separated and church attendance was mandatory. So was the tithe. Everyone was compelled to attend, and you ended up in stocks or something else punishing and humiliating if you failed and got caught. It was only after the ratification of the Constitution and a lag of twenty or thirty years before it started to emerge women were the church goers. That suggests a socio-historical origin to this phenomena, does it not? Also, what about the fact women were the congregation while all the preachers remained men? (For a good long while, anyway.) What does that mean in terms of who is more religious, women or men? Do we really want to say the most religious of all were some men, while of a middling sort of religiosity were most women?

      • doldrom
        June 5, 2019 at 5:21 pm

        Women tend to be more religious in general (without going all the way back to the primal horde). Women tend to seek out the security of the herd, are more influenced by what others are thinking, are more regular and tend to keep better rhythms in life (eating cleaning sleeping cooking), are more attuned to rituals and doing things together, place more priority on keeping in touch with other people and attending social events … there’s a lot of reasons that religion/church/rituals tend to be supported more by women than men.
        In the Jewish faith, you are Jewish if your mother was .. they’re assuming the mother is more instrumental in passing on the faith than are the fathers and their observation seems correct.

  9. Yusef
    June 5, 2019 at 4:05 pm

    “If it was a “black thing”, why are levels of religiosity in black-majority Caribbean nations noticeably lower and qualitatively different from those seen in USA. While the church still, sadly, has an important social function in those countries- people in those countries (often materially poorer than USA) seem to be far less obsessed with being religious.”

    It is always difficult to know whether you are over-generalizing or simply making things up as you go along. A lot of what you are talking about here is very difficult to summarize, but as you tend to make statements such as the above without any citation whatsoever, there’s no good reason to find your conclusions at all convincing.

    What’s a black majority Caribbean nation? Is Cuba one? You know for a long time Cuba was under Castro and Castro more or less attempted to ban religion? Could that be an explanation for religion not being “important” in Cuba?

    But I’m not willing to grant you any of your major points until you specify what you are talking about. Do you think, for example, Jamaica is “noticeably lower” in religiosity than the USA? Because, man, I hear a lot of great reggae which is Christian to the core or I’ll eat my own shit. (But then you are also saying “qualitatively different” and I will to some extent grant you that, except I actually know black Americans who listen appreciatively to reggae and favor it, including the message.)

    So, come on. I mean, really.

    Since you mentioned Jamaica, tell me something.. have you noticed that most people from that country are more interested in showing you they are believers than acting as if they believe in that crap? The same is true of allegedly catholic countries such as Brazil. My point is that american black belief in Christianity works against their own best interests because too many of them (especially older women) seem to believe in that crap- rather than just put up a good show of belief.

    • airmar50c
      June 6, 2019 at 12:27 am

      Tbh, I think AD is probably correct when it comes to Caribbeans (my family is Caribbean) and although many Caribbean people seem to be “nominally” religious, they don’t give a super huge fuck about it and they aren’t delusional like some of the evangelical or baptist Americans.

      On the other hand, although all of the Africans I’ve met are immigrants to America (which might bias the sample), a lot of them seem to be very much into Christianity. But even though they are more devout, they are very educated and (generally) avoid the more retarded aspects of Christianity. Some of them do harbor elitist self-hate in the form of “those black Americans need to be like us Africans and educate themselves and pull up their pants blah blah…” but it never seems to quite reach super-coon level where you’d see them on Fox News preaching bullshit next to house n*ggers/professional suckers of white cock like David Clarke or Ben Carson.

      Regardless of country, I think religion fucked all black people, but in USA it seems to have had a more pivotal role in the destruction of blacks as opposed to the outright raping and pillaging of Africa or the Caribbean through colonialism. In the USA whites had to keep blacks under control using bullshit gatekeeping tactics like religion, slavery, redlining, Jim Crow, the war on drugs, “law and order”, “pick yourself up by your bootstraps”, etc, whereas in Africa the whites mainly focused on stealing shit and raping the continent dry.

      • doldrom
        June 6, 2019 at 7:34 am

        The whole movement to emancipate blacks in America got its energy from Protestant ministers and Sunday School teachers. It’s disingenuous to explain religious beliefs as something the elite foists on people to keep them down — there has to be something in it for them. They often manage to find narratives in the religion that are the opposite of what the oppressors would like. A whole lot of simplistic blaming going on here. The Poles used their Catholicism to get out from under Communism. In Iran Islam was used to get rid of the Shah. In India Islam and Xianity appeals to untouchables. The Blacks in America applied God smiting the Pharaohs and the freeing the oppressed Israelites directly to their own situation. Religion is just as often subversive as it is legitimizing.

    • Yusef
      June 6, 2019 at 5:09 pm

      The Jamaicans I’ve listened to and paid attention to seem strikingly sincere. I think, though, a lot of their practices might seem to belie such sincerity unless you agree with them ganga is a sacrament and not a vice, that rock and reggae are spiritual, not the devil’s music, and good sex is something to be celebrated as a gift of heaven, not to be viewed as shameful and kept secretive. I personally have no problem with any of that and I do wish more Americans would agree. I don’t really know what to say about this because I personally do not actually know precisely what most Americans do or do not think. I find I cannot trust the media or most social science statistics, even though if you can’t trust those, how can you find out what others think. They call it “media” because it mediates over/between individuals and diverse groups, but ours doesn’t do so well or accurately. The media distorts the relationships between these rather than facilitating them and making them more straightforward. Maybe we should add dis-media or maybe dys-media or mis-media to your concept of misleaders.

      I go to a church and see others I know don’t think pot, good music, or sex is filthy– probably the priest or minister doesn’t really, either. And I don’t think these people act according to the idea these things are filthy…Their behavior doesn’t reflect such a belief in actuality. I wouldn’t therefore call them insincere. I would say they are trapped in a strangely static “public” structures by such mechanisms as mis-media and misleaders.

  10. Yusef
    June 6, 2019 at 5:19 pm

    “… there’s a lot of reasons that religion/church/rituals tend to be supported more by women than men.”

    I don’t know, but even if the numerical support is from women, there has to be politically, economical, and socially powerful support coming from men, because that’s been the main place that kind of support comes from. Religion would be swept away without the men. Rabbis are men. So was the Sanhedrin and the Sadducees and Pharisees and so on. There’s a Pope, not a Popess, and we’ve never seen Catholic priestesses, to this day. There was a Dalai Lama in Tibet, and in India you just do not see as many holy women as holy men. Not that I’m an expert on religion in India. Islam– well, I don’t even need to remark.

    • doldrom
      June 7, 2019 at 4:10 am

      Note I didn’t say only women support rituals — women tend to support them more than do men. By support I mean show up and enact. Even in Islam, where there are mosques that are 98% male attended, go and look who is organizing Ramadan get-togethers and the food.

  11. thordaddy
    June 10, 2019 at 12:43 pm

    Older black woman can see three things clearly:

    The rationale for her “black man” to maliciously miscegenate for the “struggle” was never rational.

    The hyperbolic exaggeration of the “struggle” by this young crop of ingrates.

    And “white Jesus” done lost his “pimp hand” and dons a velvet g-love, now!

  1. July 29, 2019 at 11:19 pm

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