Home > Critical Thinking, Current Affairs, Dystopia, Musings, Philosophy sans Sophistry, Reason, Secular Religions, Skepticism > Future of One Ethno-Religious Group in USA is Not Looking Bright: 2

Future of One Ethno-Religious Group in USA is Not Looking Bright: 2

In the previous part of this series, I made an observation that the general public perception of a certain ethno-religious minority in this country has gone down rather considerably over the past decade. More troublingly, this trend shows no sign of stopping, let alone reversing. While some of the reasons for this trend are secular (connection to neoliberalism and performative “wokeism”), other reasons are.. should we say.. a bit more self-inflicted. Ok.. more than a few of reasons are self-inflicted. And yes, some are intimately associated with the historical trajectory of this group. Isn’t this going to be an interesting series..

3] Obsession with control of public image, over longer timespans, is counterproductive. While it is perfectly understandable that organisations such as the ADL etc arose in 20th century, especially given the very real social discrimination against said group- we no longer live in 1913, 1933, 1945 or even 1979. Unless you are talking about some very isolated parts of flyover states, discrimination against this group in any manner is virtually nonexistent throughout this country. Now this does not imply that everyone loves them, but they are not actively hated, shunned and despised like they often used to be prior to end of WW2. In other words, they are no more hated or disliked than anybody who openly profess their Italian, Irish, Greek or another ethnic European ancestry. In fact, lilly-white Mormons are seen as more weirder than this group.

The vastly improved public acceptance of said group in this country after WW2 has, however, not translated into them being more comfortable in their skin. So what do I mean by that? Well.. even though membership of the Mafia never accounted for than a tiny percentage of Italian-Americans, there is no shortage of movies and TV shows in which they are depicted as mobsters. Curiously, the vast majority of modern Italian-Americans are not especially offended by such movies or TV shows. How many movies or TV shows have you seen in which a stereotypically Jewish person is depicted in a less-than-favorable manner, you know.. like Italian-Americans being depicted as mobsters. Some might say that it has to do with history.

Well.. let us talk about history. Aforementioned group cannot claim that it was the only group subject to genocide in modern times. Apart from what happened to the native inhabitants of the Americas and Australia, a number of other groups such as Armenians, Assyrian and Romani can make almost identical claims. And let us not forget that Generalplan Ost, if successful, would have resulted in the deaths of tens of millions (more) in Slavic countries. Did I mention that they too were targeted because of racial and ethic considerations. My point is that, in this day and age, the attempts of one group to keep claiming monopoly over past suffering due to racial or ethnic considerations is a bit odd- especially when most of its members have done pretty well for themselves. Doing so, ends up making one look like an imposter.

4] Religion, and Nationalism, is a bad mix. The other 800-pound gorilla in the room is how this religion has mixed with nationalism in a certain part of the Middle-East. After WW2, a part of this group decided to go all out and claim a piece of land in that region based on their scriptures. In hindsight, we can understand why so many did not want to be in continental Europe after what occurred there between 1993-1945. It just so happened that the borders in that region as drawn by western colonial powers after 1918 were a recipe for perpetual conflict. In any case, the state for the “chosen” people got itself off the ground and for the first 2-3 decades (of its existence) it seemed as if that country would end up resembling another European country- albeit in an unusual geographical location. But reality has a mind of its own..

Since the 1980s, this country has increasingly come to resemble its geographical neighbors. What started out as a quasi-socialist liberal state has now become a garrison reactionary state run by people who sound a lot like the very people their ancestors escaped from. As Nietzsche wrote.. “Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.” I am NOT saying they have finally become exactly what their ancestors feared. For example- the Nazis clearly had way more photogenic uniforms and were very open about their plans for lebensraum. But the train of history is clearly moving in that general direction. But why does this matter to us?

Well.. because the past two decades have also seen very vigorous attempts in this country to conflate the religion (Judaism) with the nationalist ideology (Zionism). What makes this especially problematic is that the country in question is also trying to start numerous wars in that region and somehow suck this country into them. It does not take a genius to figure out that a large war in the Middle-East (say.. with Iran) which cannot be won in a decisive manner, in addition to causing a large bunch of undesirable global downstream effects, will be rather unpopular in this country. While the politicians in this country are beholden to organisations such as AIPAC and many pro-Israel billionaires, it remains to be seem how they will behave once those positions become unsustainable with their constituents. And this situation might be reached much sooner than any of us would prefer.

In the upcoming part of this series, I will write more about why conflating religio-cultural identity with nationalism has a tendency to end badly and why the secondary and tertiary downstream effects of such a disaster are much bigger than most people realize or want to believe.

What do you think? Comments?

  1. Atlanta Man
    December 12, 2019 at 3:37 am

    This is why I come to this website daily, this is a fair balanced long view discussion of this issue without overt antisemitism (which is based in jealousy and resentment in it’s current iteration circa 1980- present). Please make this a thought out series so I can better form my opinion in an informed educated manner. I am woefully uninformed on this issue and have a more informed perspective due to your last two posts. I eagerly await you next installment. I was going to post my opinion on this matter but after I read this installment I will have to reconsider everything. Please include a discussion of the Balfour Declaration the 6 day war and anything else that would better inform me. I ask this respectfully with full awareness that this is your platform and you can do whatever the hell you want. I do appreciate your intellectual, emotionally detached , even handed approach.

    • (((They))) Live
      December 12, 2019 at 6:37 am

      Jealousy LOL

      If the people of Iraq hate the neo-Cohens it because of jealousy, when Asian students take Harvard to court for discrimination is all just jealousy, when people hate the Sackler family its all just jealousy, when a Shiksa says she was raped by Harvey Weinsten she’s just jealous

      The goyim are jealous

  2. Gern Blanderson
    December 12, 2019 at 6:03 am

    The antisemitic tendencies and persecution of the Jews start to rise up whenever the Jewish people accomplish success. I have been interested in the Medici and the Renaissance lately and I’ve come to find out in 1490s, the Catholic theocracy expelled the Jews and Medici from Florence. Later in the 1500s, they go on to establish banks and other commercial and merchant networks. We later know the antisemitic backlash that occurred in Europe. My point being is the history of the Jews shows cycles of success and then persecution and then rebuilding and onto success and persecution, and it continues. It appears to me that we are entering another period in history that is leading to persecution of the Jews again.

    Someone more enlightened about Jewish history can feel free to challenge me on this.

    • (((They))) Live
      December 12, 2019 at 6:50 am

      You clearly only know the Jewish version of events, at least two sides to every story, the idea that Jews are always and everywhere blameless victims is total BS

      As the Russians say, the Jew always tells you what happened to him, but he never tells you why

    • emery
      December 19, 2019 at 4:04 pm

      The jewish problem is best summed up in the book “The Jews” by Hilaire Belloc. It was so prescient that it predicted the Holocaust years before it happened (written in 1922, outlined what ended up actually happening 20 years later). Here’s the too-short summary: The Jewish people as a rule demand to remain (ethnically, religiously, etc) separate from any nation with no option for assimilation. This inevitably leads to a pile of behaviors that end up with them stabbing the host nation in the back repeatedly. Then expulsion because everyone’s pissed.

      It sums up the issue perfectly without the far right anti-semitism or the far left ‘they’re jealous!’
      Here’s a free link:
      https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/50556

  3. Jarien21
    December 12, 2019 at 7:50 am

    “Well.. let us talk about history. Aforementioned group cannot claim that it was the only group subject to genocide in modern times. Apart from what happened to the native inhabitants of the Americas and Australia, a number of other groups such as Armenians, Assyrian and Romani can make almost identical claims.”

    Yes, exactly. And we haven’t even gotten to Asia yet.

    “My point is that, in this day and age, the attempts of one group to keep claiming monopoly over past suffering due to racial or ethnic considerations is a bit odd- especially when most of its members have done pretty well for themselves.”

    Very odd.

    Big elephant in the room: African-Americans. The slave trade was an unintentional genocide of larger numbers, yet the main purpose was forced labor over the course of 400 years. That’s a claim that this “Ethno-Religious” group can’t even begin to make unless resorting to the skeptical history surrounding what an antiquated book of questionable stories says about an ancient Egypt most scholars don’t even recognize.

    Black people still face unjust treatment by the police, discrimination in housing and hospitals, and even education. And while things are arguably getting “better”, the amount of hurdles still in the way are disproportionately spread across age, gender and class among Black people. That’s way less than this “Ethno-Religious” group faces, even with the rise of American nationalism. This will be even way less than what Latinos/Hispanics, Arabs and South/East Asians will face, solely on the basis of not being White (yet perceived as “immigrants”).

    By comparison, it sounds like the story of Chicken Little. And the sky’s not falling on them.

    • Jarien21
      December 12, 2019 at 8:21 am

      Correction: That’s way MORE than this “Ethno-Religious” group faces, even with the rise of American nationalism. Even Latinos/Hispanics, Arabs and South/East Asians will face MORE, solely on the basis of not being White (yet perceived as “immigrants”).

    • (((They))) Live
      December 12, 2019 at 10:33 am

      Guess who were the main players in the African slave trade and also the slave trade of Europeans into the Ottoman empire

    • doldrom
      December 12, 2019 at 4:43 pm

      That’s why there is a net outflux of black people to countries where they do not face the kind of persecution they suffer in the white lands.

    • doldrom
      December 12, 2019 at 4:47 pm

      In Europe there are all kinds of people of color trying to cross the sea to get to the other side, the promised land where they will not be discriminated upon by whites.

    • Yusef
      December 13, 2019 at 10:07 am

      About fifteen million Africans were eventually imported into the U.S., but what is not often mentioned is the forty million Africans who perished in the course of this relocation. The processes of rounding up the slaves, then shipping them across the Atlantic stacked as cordwood, and warehousing them until the final sale, was unspeakably brutal. It almost seems as if it was intentionally brutal: livestock wouldn’t be treated this way if what was going on was sensible commerce.

      So here you have forty million people dying. That’s nearly seven times the number killed during the Holocaust. Compare the efforts to keep alive the memory of the Holocaust with the efforts to sweep under the rug the history of slavery and particularly the slave trade. Yes, it would make most people question the motives of this group because it would seem to me if their real intention was to promote civilization and the humane treatment of humans, their efforts would be more universally projected onto the sufferings of other groups and not just their own.

      Iranian President Ahmadinejad raised these sorts of issues back during the W years. Look at the flack he took. He was attacked scoffed and I would say censored in the American “free press” which is none of which. Okay, whoever controls the press can control the messages but not completely and the leakage of inconvenient truths is over the long run overwhelming.

      To top it off I would say these tactics are self-defeating and as AD says,result in wounds to themselves, self-inflicted. They really should no better.

  4. Lewis from Afula
    December 12, 2019 at 9:10 am

    This post repeats the myth that Israel came into being because of WW2. Actually, the revitilization of Hebrew occurred at the end of the 1800s. The first Hebrew High School opened in 1909. The Hebrew University opened in 1923. The Haganah (later becoming the Israeli Army) formed in 1920.
    Today, most of Israel’s Jewish population comes from North Africa, Middle East, Central Asia and India. This issue is becoming harder to analyse due to multiple ancestries of the younger generations.

    What was the Jewish population in British Palestine in 1939 and what was it by 1950. WW2 did not start the process, but it was the strongest contributor (by a huge margin) to the eventual outcome.

    • doldrom
      December 12, 2019 at 4:45 pm

      Israel was largely formed on the basis of recognition and support from the West, partly as an obligation created by what had happened to the Jews in WW2.

  5. Lewis from Afula
    December 13, 2019 at 2:59 pm

    Jewish population in 1939 was 449,000. In 1948, Jewish population was 717,000. In other words, the Jewish population had achieved critical mass well before the war.

  6. Lewis from Afula
    December 13, 2019 at 3:06 pm

    Re: Doldrum,
    Israel received military support from the USSR in the 1948 independence war. The West subjected Israel to a miiltary embargo !

    The numerical data for 1939 and 1948 was found from:
    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-and-non-jewish-population-of-israel-palestine-1517-present

    My grasp on history is a bit more than you realize, *S*. As I have said before, I have no dog in this fight. But that does not mean I am not going to shy away from pointing the obvious.

    • Yusef
      December 14, 2019 at 4:25 pm

      I reviewed the same Jewish virtual library data as you and it demonstrates the exact opposite of what you claim:

      Year %Jewish Israel

      1931 16.9
      1936 28.1
      1946 30.0
      1948 82.1
      1950 87.8
      1965 88.5
      1980 83.7
      1995 80.6
      2019 74.2

      The Jewish virtual library also provides data on the explosive growth of Israel’s population from 1948 to the present: in 1948 the population was about 808,000; in 2019 it is over nine million.

      The big jumps are all after WW2 and the establishment of the Jewish state of Israel. You’ve simply cherry picked the numbers to make it look the way you want it to look, but why? What do you get out of it? What dog do you have in this fight?

      • Lewis from Afula
        December 15, 2019 at 10:47 am

        Yusef:
        The author of this blog pointed out his belief that WW2 accelerated the creation of Modern Israel. I disagree with him. I showed that 449,000 Jews were already in the Land in 1939. In the counterfactual absence of WW2, that number would have increased greatly in the following decades. The presence of 4.5 Million Jews in Eastern Europe (notably Poland, Hungary & Romania) facing extreme discrimination under various authoritarian regimes, guaranteed massive future Jewish immigration. In reality, this population was largely destroyed by the Nazis.

        This argument is discussed by the historian in the link I gave. Israel came into being DESPITE WW2.

      • Yusef
        December 15, 2019 at 3:32 pm

        If AD’s claim was WW2 initiated and inspired Zionism, then he’s clearly wrong and you are clearly right. If, however, his claim is WW2 as you say “accelerated” the creation of Modern Israel, he has a strong point, as I’ve attempted to demonstrate.

        We’re both arguing counterfactuals here, not just me. This in part means we’re both speculating, so for me the intention is really only to be clear as possible about the facts such as we have them.

        “Palestine” was still a British protectorate in the years immediately following WW2, and it seems to me as if (and I understand if you see it differently) the Jews of Europe, in spite of everything, still had some faith in western civilization and things moving along among and within the approved channels, in both Britain and Germany. After WW2, they were under no such illusions, and were ready to get down and dirty if that’s what it took. There’s fierce terrorism on the part of the Jews, anti-British or anyone else standing in the way. I don’t believe there was anything nearly so pronounced and sustained prior to WW2 (though I stand to be corrected if necessary). This is a sense in which WW2 was a strong factor.

        There’s a lot going on at that time and I don’t believe history follows the same sorts of causality as billiard balls colliding. The British Empire came apart after WW2. Was WW2 a cause and thus also a cause of the formal founding of the Jewish state. I usually hesitate before I say things like that. Another factor, maybe, was the creation of the UN after WW2, and UN recognition was a big deal in the late 40’s and taken to legitimize Israel in a way those who wished to contest found difficult to resist. I hear very little about the UN these days, so there must have been something in the wind for this short period of war weariness and horror of standing on the precipice of absolute destruction.

  7. hoipolloi
    December 13, 2019 at 3:38 pm

    @AD: But the train of history is clearly moving in that general direction. But why does this matter to us?

    I thought the salutation “Remember Holocaust” is past extinct. But you are raising this as a current issue. You should have seen some signals. As other commenters pointed out this doesn’t bode well for the parties concerned.

    The other parts of that paragraph (especially choice of words) were meaningful too.. “Nazis clearly had way more photogenic uniforms and were very open about their plans for lebensraum. But the train of history is clearly moving in that general direction.”

  8. Lewis from Afula
    December 14, 2019 at 6:46 am

    Re: “WW2 did not start the process, but it was the strongest contributor (by a huge margin) to the eventual outcome.”

    I disagree with you that WW2 accelerated the creation of Modern Israel. I believe that Israel came into being DESPITE WW2. Crucially, 75% of new Jewish immigrants to Palestine between 1930 to Sept. 1939 came from Poland, Hungary & Romania. Their numbers would have been much greater if not for British imposed immigration limits.from 1936 onwards.

    How the holocaust slowed down and almost stopped he creation of Modern Israel,is discussed in greater deatil by the historian Yehuda Bauer in this 2008 talk,

    —–

    If that is what you want to believe.. sure.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliyah

  9. December 21, 2019 at 3:19 pm

    I have worked for at least 13 Jewish clients. I entrusted most of my long term investment money to two independent Jewish financial planners… until loosing trust in each (sequentially) and moving all money to Schwab. I have attended several bat mitzvahs and bar mitzvahs. Without exception, the Jewish people I have engaged blatantly state that they are superior to other ethnic / racial groups. They typically proclaim they are superior based on the idea that their people have been persecuted and murdered for hundreds of years and kicked out of every country in history. They claim that only the smartest of them have survived what the rest of the world has done to them and therefore what is left of them is the most intelligent. They wear their badge of victim hood like some bizarre Darwinian theory of intellectual distillation and evolutionary superiority. I have met some who are very generous. However, their generosity in my experience is based on two seemingly strict conditions…

    One, they must like you based on you agreeing with them, especially specifically regarding their victimhood and Jewish supremacy. Each relationship began with certain “test questions” to solicit my attitudes and perspectives concerning race issues, gender issues, homosexuality or other socially controversial concerns. It is as if they universally query and feel out each individual not in their group for any basis. I’ve wondered if they expect that if a person expresses no bias or expresses “approval” of all minorities that said person is likely to approve of them unconditionally. This has occurred without exception with the questioners carefully observing my body language and response. Once you are “approved of”, they will typically relax and engage you less guarded. But be extremely careful what you say around them or what you say that may be repeated. For example if you say something like “he jewed me down” regarding money in a contractual negotiation, you will have to start all over building their “trust”. They take statements as such extremely personally, a perfect accompaniment to their victim card.

    Two, you will receive no generosity unless they believe their generosity will gain them something from you that you would not otherwise provide. This paradigm dynamic is essentially a form of proactive open ended bribery. It can and has involved sex or their hope for sex. It can and has involved future expectations of free services and favors you would never expect or provide or foresee. It can and has involved them expecting you to financially backstab your employees for their benefit in the form of discounts for them.

    Watch this, what is this? Is it patriotic pride, or arrogant supremest narcissism….

    Listen carefully to all the words. Listen to how brazen, gauche, rude, crass and arrogant Sandler’s proclamation of Jewish supremacy really is.

    Judaism is five thousand years old. It is a five thousand year old superstition steeped in obsessive compulsive neurosis, sanctimonious arrogance and narcissism. It is arguably the longest standing most enduring, most destructive superstition the human race has ever suffered.

    I live one mile from two Jewish synagogues. They are about one quarter mile from each other. Jews own several homes in the area that they use only on the sabbath. This is so they do not have to drive on the sabbath. Per their “orthodoxy” (neurosis) they are not permitted by god to start fires on the sabbath. Starting a car would mean starting a fire in the engine. Some of these homes even have motion detector light switches so they aren’t responsible (to god) for turning on a light switch. Apparently electricity is a form of fire god also detests on the sabbath. One must wonder what little Jewish bastard burned the family hut down while the parents were licking the donkey shit off the statue of Moses 4,500 years ago.

    If you’ve ever attended a bat or bar mitzvah or if you do, you will likely be lectured by a Jewish person, most likely the host, about what caring generous people the Jews are while you are at the event. They do throw parties spending lots of money on food and drink. But know this, the parties are events they throw for themselves in their honor. The “guests” are really merely props they need to decorate their stage of narcissism. And be forewarned, if you are invited, usually the parties are financed by money they bilked out of you and other attendees. This was the case with both financial planners I fired because I was loosing my ass during up markets while they were reaping large fees on trades they made that I lost my ass on.

    Have you ever met a Jewish person who is truly friends with a black person? I never have and I’ve known quite a few. I have never seen a black person at any synagogue and I’ve attended several. I really don’t think black people ever get invited, if so it must be exceptionally rare. They will blather on about racism to be sure you understand that they are against it and psychologically threaten you lest you may possibly be, even though you have given absolutely zero indication. The Jews I’ve interacted with without exception have approached racism with me on these terms without knowing anything about my attitudes concerning the subject. None knew that I have black friends, that I have attended black churches because black friends invited me, that I have enjoyed all day crawfish boils with black friends drinking beer and partying, that I worked for one institution for two years that was almost entirely black and many days I was the only white there. But there you have it, because I am white, every Jewish person who has crossed my path has apparently assumed that I am racist by default apparently because I am white and it is their duty to confirm whether I am or not and correct me if they confirm I am. Do you think maybe, just maybe, they are projecting?


    What can I say.. *S*

    • (((They))) Live
      December 21, 2019 at 10:04 pm

      You really need to read a book called Culture of Critique by Kevin McDonald, if ever there was a book (((They))) don’t want you to read thats the one

    • hoipolloi
      December 21, 2019 at 10:37 pm

      “It is arguably the longest standing most enduring, most destructive superstition the human race has ever suffered.” Under the arguably clause, Hinduism comes close to the said religion.

      “It is a five thousand year old superstition steeped in obsessive compulsive neurosis, sanctimonious arrogance and narcissism.” A particular group or caste called brahmin among Hindus comes close to this description.

      PS: Just sharing the cross cultural information without malice.

  10. neo
    January 12, 2020 at 10:21 am

    it’s a myth that they were ever really discriminated against in America, just read Ron Unz’s powerful article

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-adl-in-american-society/

  11. P Ray
    March 22, 2020 at 9:53 pm

    This one’s a good comment:
    Democracy is nothing but a dictatorship of the media corporations. Mass media are the real power behind the throne.

    The governments in democratic countries are just front men for the big business to hide behind (international banks, interests groups, NGOs, corporate magnates and the military-industrial complex).

    The quality of any government depends solely on the human quality of the men in charge and the decisions they make.

    Democracy, being entirely based on popularity rather than quality or merit will always favor clever liars, sociopaths, schemers and con men.

    It will always produce corruption, nepotism and decay.

    The honest men will never get elected because they either say unpleasant truths or the mass media will blacklist them in favor of their own pre-vetted candidates.

    In any election with more than a couple of hundreds of electors, the people will always have to rely on mass media to form their opinion on the candidates, because it’s physically impossible to known such candidates personally and form any opinion about them on your own.

    It makes democracy effectively a dictatorship of the media bosses and with Jews so overrepresented in positions of power in various media corporations (and banks financing them) it’s rather easy to figure out who really makes all the important decisions.

  1. February 14, 2020 at 5:53 pm

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