Home > Critical Thinking, Current Affairs, Dystopia, Musings, Philosophy sans Sophistry, Reason, Secular Religions, Skepticism > On the Many Potential Real-Life Problems with Any COVID-19 Vaccine

On the Many Potential Real-Life Problems with Any COVID-19 Vaccine

Most of you might have recently heard something about progress in the development of one (or more) of the many vaccines being developed for COVID-19. While I don’t want into a lot of detail about the types of vaccines being developed, two are getting most of the attention. One is the ‘RNA-based’ one such as those from (Moderna, Pfizer etc. The other type is adenovirus-based ones such as that Oxford-AZ and CanSino vaccine. Even with the initial results of these, and many more, vaccines- I predict that even the most successful vaccine will have to overcome tons of real-life problems. And I am not the only one to hold that opinion. Here is why..

1] RNA-based vaccines of the type developed by Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech are problematic for more than one reason. Firstly, no RNA-based vaccine has yet been approved for human or animal use. Sure.. this is partly due to the reason that the technology, injecting encapsulated mRNA to make you own cells produce the antigen you want to stimulate an immune response against is fairly new technology. But there is a second reason- specifically, mRNA based vaccines are notorious for causing grade 3 and higher reactions in a small percentage of individuals. Though Moderna is trying its best to obscure the data, more than a few people in their relatively small phase I trial developed reactions serious enough to require prompt medical attention.

Why does this matter? Well.. let us consider how things will play out if they have a 5% incidence of such reactions during a mass vaccination drive against COVID-19. Imagine you vaccinate a million people and 5% of them develop such reactions. Even if they are can be easily treated in the hospital or a clinic, you have 50,000 fairly ill people who wouldn’t be there if they had not taken this vaccine. Also, if there are 50,000 people ill enough to require medical attention, you can bet a few of them will end up becoming much more ill or even dying. Let me remind you that the mortality due to COID-19 in people under 50 is less than 1 in 1,000. What are the chances that the vaccine kills and hospitalizes as many people as the infection in younger age groups?

This is not to say that vaccines with such high rates of side-effects are useless. The vaccine for smallpox and older versions of the rabies vaccine also had rather high rates of side effects. But there is the thing.. smallpox, when it existed, was a very contagious illness with 30% mortality rate. Rabies has a mortality of almost 100% once the infection has reached the central nervous system. Most people will be fine with a vaccine for smallpox or rabies that kills one in a few thousand people, because of the high fatality rates of those infections. The same cannot be said about COVID-19. To make matters more interesting, we don’t know if mRNA based vaccines are more likely to induce auto-immune diseases than other, more conventional, vaccines.

2] The other main type of COVID-19 vaccines use fairly harmless adenoviral vectors that express some proteins from the virus in question. In contrast to mRNA based vaccines, we have a decent amount of experience with such vaccines in both animals and humans trials. Also vaccines that use a similar strategy- where one fairly harmless virus expresses proteins of a far more harmful virus to induce immunity to later have been used to develop a few vaccines used in animals and at least one for humans (Ebola vaccine). We can, therefore, be a bit more certain that the safety of vaccines in this category is not as unknown as those mRNA-based vaccines. Also, the rate of complications for such viral-vector based vaccines is noticeably lower than mRNA vaccines.

The initial data from the Oxford-AZ vaccine trials also suggest that they do a much better job at stimulating immunity to the virus among CD4 and CD8 T-lymphocytes. It is known that immunity to Coronaviruses in animals is more cell-based than antibody based. In other words, the Oxford-AZ vaccine is likely to produce better immunity under real-life conditions with noticeably fewer side-effects than mRNA based vaccines. The CanSino vaccine, which uses a human adenoviral vector, seems to be a bit less effective than the Oxford-AZ vaccine which uses a chimpanzee adenoviral vector- perhaps, because of pre-existing immunity to human adenoviruses. Between mRNA and adenoviral-vector based vaccines, I would put my money on the later.

3] The next issue concerning COVID-19 vaccination comes down to the logistics of producing, distributing and actually giving the vaccine. Having the best vaccine means shit all if you cannot produce it on a large scale without breakdowns in quality control. Once again, the adenoviral-vector based vaccines are a bit better than mRNA-based ones in that regard, especially with existing infrastructure. Distributing the vaccine, even if effective will however pose quite a few problems. For starters, who do you vaccinate first- the groups most likely to die from infection or those most likely to transmit it? How do you vaccinate hundreds of millions in a very short time without a huge number of people ending up in hospitals due to side-effects, even if temporary.

And what are you going to do about all the people who would rather wait and see what happens to initial bunch of vaccine recipients? What if there is a large wave of hospitalizations from first widespread use of whichever COVID-19 vaccine ends up being approved. Remember even a 2% incidence of severe reactions is a large number once you are talking about millions of recipients. How will you convince people to keep getting vaccinated if initial use of COVID-19 vaccine causes tens of thousands of hospitalizations? This is especially likely for mRNA-based vaccine such as those being developed by Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech. Then there are issues of efficacy. What if the approved vaccines prove to be only 80-90% effective. While this is a perfectly acceptable for many existing vaccines- dumbfuck “ivy-league experts” have promised the sky to masses.

I can think of many other issues, but we are already past a thousand words. Might write more in a future post on this topic, depending on responses to this one.

What do you think? Comments?

  1. RYU
    July 23, 2020 at 11:55 pm

    I m sure that AdvocatusDiaboli has fallen for this scam many a time but he is to embarrassed to admit this!

    Good thing that I focus my anal lust on the white man.

    White Power!

  2. July 24, 2020 at 1:38 am

    Agree with everything said and just like to add that convincing people to get vaccinated despite of side effects will probably fail miserably because the “experts” lost the credibility. That’s why there’s even “virus deniers”.

    Fauci just whined in an interview that the message about masks is inconsistent. This coming from the guy who admitted he lied about masks initially because of the shortage. I can’t imagine people jumping in the bandwagon if he comes on TV with a syringe.

    Plus, I am also skeptical of things done in a rush. So I will be one of those who will wait a while before getting the vaccine. I am also medium-to-low risk from COVID complications.

    • July 26, 2020 at 7:15 pm

      Certainly millions are already developing immunity naturally which encourages a significant number to trust the same path to immunity rather than any vaccine.

  3. P Ray
    July 24, 2020 at 5:28 am

    What about the lawsuits when some people get worse health after taking the vaccine?

    This is why any trials of such vaccine, for prudent companies, will take place in New Zealand where there are some interesting wrinkles:
    1) It’s hard for large compensation packages to be awarded there
    2) The pharmaceutical company will probably tie up with a Maori-controlled company, then people who begin legal action against them will be told “You are racist against Maori.”

    Off the top of my head, those are among the reasons why many technologies and vaccines are tried in New Zealand first.

    • doldrom
      July 24, 2020 at 6:05 pm

      They’ve all been granted blanket immunity (har har) against any legal repercussions.

    • Gordonsson
      July 24, 2020 at 9:55 pm

      For what vaccines have we been used as guinea pigs here in NZ?
      Wouldn’t mind knowing as I’ve had all the normal stuff over the years, plus getting inoculated up the wazoo with all kinds of stuff as pre-requisite for working in places like PNG.

      • P Ray
        July 24, 2020 at 10:10 pm

        I can let you know about the information about 1) It’s hard for large compensation packages to be awarded there:
        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/12/white-island-volcano-victims-cannot-bring-civil-lawsuits-for-negligence
        White Island volcano victims cannot bring civil lawsuits for negligence
        New Zealand’s accident compensation scheme covers cost of treatment for all injuries and bars victims from taking legal action against operators

        I will do the #2 next (pun intended)

        And again, it’s funny how the foreigner has to educate kiwis …

      • P Ray
        July 24, 2020 at 10:15 pm

        And here is your, Mr. Gordonsson

        2)For what vaccines have we been used as guinea pigs here in NZ?
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/107960355/kiwi-scientists-closer-to-finding-universal-flu-vaccine
        Wellingtonians become guinea pigs in search for universal flu vaccine
        Tarannum Shaikh and Amanda Saxton
        19:53, Oct 20 2018
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        Dr George Slim was one of more than 2000 Wellingtonians who took part in this year’s testing, to help develop a longer flu vaccine.
        MONIQUE FORD/STUFF
        Dr George Slim was one of more than 2000 Wellingtonians who took part in this year’s testing, to help develop a longer flu vaccine.
        Every year sometime in Autumn, Kiwis across the country line up to get jabbed in the arm.

        They are trying to fend off the watery eyes, sore throats, aching body, fevers and chills all associated with the dreaded flu, by getting the flu vaccine that should hold them through to the next year.

        However, scientists tucked away in Wellington are now a step closer to finding a universal flu vaccine that could last up to five years.

        Scientist and policy advisor Dr George Slim, 58, was one of more than 2000 Wellingtonians who took part in this year’s testing, to help develop a longer flu vaccine.

        That’s what happens when you try to debunk someone who graduated from one of your top 5 universities in NZ … in a STEM subject.

        You get schooled.

  4. doldrom
    July 24, 2020 at 6:50 pm

    So if immunity is mostly cell-based instead of antibody modulated, what does surveillance of seroconversion actually mean??

    Antibody tests don’t capture the full extent of post-infection (and vaccine-induced) immunity.

  5. July 25, 2020 at 5:40 am

    We are living in a real-time experiment in which suddenly we find ourselves engaging in ways we never have before online. Many people are finding an upside to online engagement and I think that will carry over when we have a vaccine and can again safety interact.

  6. ...low status dudebroe...
    July 25, 2020 at 12:15 pm

    This is funnier than shit!

  7. Graham Dawson
    July 25, 2020 at 10:07 pm

    Mr Ray,

    Thank you, I was not previously aware of that.
    No “debunking” was intended.
    I am interested to know what medical experimentation we may have been subjected to.

    Cheers.

  8. July 26, 2020 at 7:25 pm

    I recently received the newest shingles vaccine. The physician who prescribed it told me it is about 90% effective ant that this is a high rate of effectiveness. The old one was only about 50% effective. The effective success of flue vaccines vary from year to year and some significantly fail to be as effective as projected. Seems to me by far the most significant value of developing a vaccine will be isolated the the very few who profit from it.

  9. Castrati
    July 27, 2020 at 4:12 pm

    hey could you discuss male or female plastic surgery as a topic? Interested in seeing what you have to say.

    • Plague Doctor
      July 27, 2020 at 10:57 pm

      Oh hai Castrati,

      If you are white and you are willing to get your love sausage lopped off, well…

      let’s just say that traps and alt-right guys are a thang…

  10. Jack Donovan
    July 28, 2020 at 4:43 pm

    oh, what ‘riods can do for a man!!!!

    before roids, I looked like some concentration camp survivor (even though there weren’t no holocaust.)

    Yep, Bezos is bald like me. I bet all that #blm talk would go out the door if he came to the wolves of vineland and then it would be all who dropped the soap…

  11. MikeCA
    July 28, 2020 at 4:52 pm

    “Though Moderna is trying its best to obscure the data, more than a few people in their relatively small phase I trial developed reactions serious enough to require prompt medical attention.”

    Moderna is starting much bigger trials now. I’ve seen numbers like 30,000 people. If the rate of serious reactions is high, it will be impossible to hide it in a trial that large. Presumably the FDA would not approve a vaccine with the high rate of problems for COVID-19, although Trump has politicized HHS so he might pressure FDA to approve the vaccine even if it is not safe. The rumor is that Trump wants to announce a vaccine approval by the FDA in October to boost his campaign.

    • joe biden's hairpiece
      July 28, 2020 at 6:37 pm

      “The rumor is that Trump wants to announce a vaccine approval by the FDA in October to boost his campaign.”

      b..b..but I thought all the trumpkins were antivaxxerz…

      wouldn’t it mean that only the bidets (he if trumpets are trumkins, bidets seems fine for the bidenettes…) would get the vaccine?

      And then only the people that voted for biden would die?

      c’mon MikeCaCa, you need to be more coherent with your conspiro theories…

    • RYU
      July 30, 2020 at 10:23 am

      https://news.yahoo.com/trump-secure-election-victory-voters-075004674.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=1_02

      Dur Furer will win again because people like you threaten to slash their tires if they say who they are gonna vote for. Too bad our Furer has let us down. You wanna go to the white only bath house with us mikey?

  12. Mr Ødessa
    July 30, 2020 at 1:51 am

    Indian Supremacists achieved a death rate of 19 per million or 0.002 percent using Hydrochloroquine:

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/this-indian-slum-contained-a-possible-covid-19-disaster-with-hydroxychloroquine

  13. Stef Th.
    September 16, 2020 at 7:04 am

    Contrary to the illusory idea cultivated in the world by the public relations office of AstraZeneca that its vaccine will be available to the public by 2020, the “Plan” of its elaboration states that “the estimated date of completion is August 2021 ».
    But, as reactions show internationally, including those of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the US National Institutes of Health (NIH), after causing severe damage (transverse myelitis) to two volunteers – “experimental animals” (the first, in July 2020, had been cleverly concealed) the completion time of the COVID-19 vaccine will be initially postponed to… 2024.

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